The rest of the world had the ''Rover V8'' for 30+ years... The US had the Buick 215 for 3 The British used it long enough to realize its full potential. Here its a foot-note in GM historyou: Mike at T/A must have way to much free time if he can drop everything to answer simple questions that should be answered on his website. That is just rediculously bad at marketing. Its the equivalent of the crappy classified adds that read---FS- 93 chevy $3000 call Bob at ###### The catalog might as well read----FS- alum Rover heads $1500-$2800 call Mike at ###### for all the info in it:shock: Im not trying to bash on T/A, its just a huge pet peeve of mine when companies expect me to call them to get info that I should have been able to read in thirty seconds
I get your point and I agree that it is a lot better to have as much info in the description as possible. What I wanted you to get is that Mike is still having start-up problems and will get it fine tuned when he can. He has gone ahead with a less than perfect program to get the heads out there to be used and it is working since he is selling everyone that he can make. We are always telling him that it is taking too long to get new stuff out there so he is not going to wait until every "i" is dotted and every "t" is crossed before launching a new part. As far as Mike having free time, he doesn't. He made the time to work with us because he is interested in our problems and I had a lot more questions than just the ones concerning the rover head. Paul ---------- Post added at 11:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 PM ---------- When talking about the 350 Stage II head Mike made reference to the V6 Stage II head which would be GM PART # 25500030. If the 350 head was made after that V6 design, the power potential would be incredible. Mike talked about cutting up 4 heads and welding the two 2 cylinder sections together to make a V8 head. That actually looks very doable. The same could be done to the sand cores and box so it wouldn't take much to cast the V8 version of the V6 head. I would rather see a Stage II 350 head. Paul
There isnt a sarcasm smiley unfortunatly... I know T/A Mike is a very busy man and its great that he'll take a moment to talk with customers:TU: My point was that many many questions are better answered on the T/A website. Even if a product is still in the beta stage, make it clear. If there are lots of build options, make that clear. Not just about these heads, but in most of their catalog. Its full of vague descriptions that force customers to have to call for info that should be on the T/A website. Time should be managed the same as any other resource, and answering questions that are better answered in text form is a waste of resourses:rant: Once again, Im not bashing T/A, I want them to do well, but crap like this is holding them back. T/A started in the '80s and their marketing is still stuck in the '80sou:
Paul, they also considered that approach with the Rover heads but when the time came to whittle wood it was better, easier and cheaper to just build new forms. Odds are it'll be the same with the 350 heads if and when they get done. I'd say the process on the Rover heads was at this point about six years ago. So don't think it's going to happen any time soon, and that was without building an intake manifold first. Realistically, at least that long this time around, probably more. So once again, the 300/350 is a high performance SBB you can build today using existing parts, but I don't suppose anybody is really serious about it or they'd already have a deposit in on the heads. TA is selling them as fast as they can make them but NOBODY here (except Art) has even looked into it enough to find out how to get a set until yesterday? They've been on the market almost a year? Had at least two production runs? Yeah, this is all just bench racing. Nothing of any real substance. Which brings another thought to mind. TA makes roller cam blanks out of 1050 steel? Heck anybody could turn out a round lobe cam blank from a chunk of round bar using a common engine lathe. Get that ground and hardened for the 350/Rover hybrid, no 50 piece minimum. There's your 350 with aluminum heads. (Wah! We need an intake!--- cry me a river ya big baby.) (That's hypothetical btw, not talking to you Paul or anyone else in particular, just everyone in general.) If you don't want to deal with the heat treat, no biggie, just use something like 4140 HT and it'll last forever. Remember guys, the gear bolts on to these, unlike the BBB. Jim
Linda Ronstadt song, "Poor Poor Pitiful Me", sounds like a 350 sbb theme song ! You know why the other cars are faster ?, because they "work" at it ! I had (10) roller cam blanks, made about (3) years ago, to help the rover/sbb effort. Not (1) of you were remotely interested ! Now you want "Mike" to invest how many thousands of $'s, without any deposits?=delusional ! Who among you, will grab the gauntlet, and build an impressive sbb, with parts available NOW ? o No::blast::spank::shock: roverman.
How did you hear they were avalible? It sure wasnt on the T/A website. Just to be clear, Im looking at the T/A heads for a '64 300, any questions about the heads working on a 350 are out of curiousity. Im probibly going to stroke the 300 to a 349. Its not going to be a race car, so I need details to deside if these heads are going to be worth $3000+ for my app. Or will a ported set of stockers work for my app. I have 8 to 10 projects going at any one time so I dont have time to waste tracking down info and playing with trial&error. If y'all do, good for you, I dont.
So after all is said and done, I agree that the way to go is the 300 block 340/350 crank combination with the Rover head. Anyone that is even remotely thinking about doing this combination should be doing an all out effort to get a set of Rover heads NOW. If they get the heads and decide not to use them, there should be no problem selling them. Paul ---------- Post added at 09:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 AM ---------- See post #277 I talked to Mike at TA yesterday. He has bare castings but was having problems getting the CNC work done to his satisfaction. He switched to a different machine shop and feels the work will be done correctly. You would need to call Mike and see if there are any available from this batch. He indicated that there was deposits on all. The TA head will get you in the 400-500 hp range and still be street friendly. If you cannot get the head in the time you need it, then we will help you figure out the best factory head for porting. Paul
My point exactly Paul. Mike Jr, came on this site at more or less regular intervals to give us updates clear up to the release of the Rover heads, adding to a thread specifically addressing the development of those heads which a few of us made a point of keeping near the top of the que, and as their release drew near, Mike Sr. made a few appearances as well. I don't know how you can get any more specific directed marketing than that, yet evidently some just weren't paying attention. Bear in mind, the TA catalog is only printed up once a year and the last one was printed before the heads were ready. I'm quite sure that their website largely mirrors the catalog and probably is updated at the same time. Well, it's a little difficult to put details in print if all the decisions about the new product haven't even been made yet, which they would not be until the first units were completed, and probably shipped as well. As for your cam blanks Art, I don't mean to sound harsh but this isn't the market for them. From your description they take the form of the later Rover cam and have no provision for an oil pump drive, and no snout to mount the gear on, or the eccentric either for that matter, both of which are somewhat important for this crowd. It's easy to make something, but it takes real effort to market and sell it. You should be targeting the guys building late model Rover engines, maybe the TVR guys. The problem is, you built a specialty product for a very small market. So now to sell them you need to inform every person in that market that you have them. That's not us, and it's not the early Rover guys. Sorry, I for one really appreciate your efforts. But I have to have an oil pump drive. It has to be a gear, and it has to be accurately and solidly mounted. Jim
Got "cast iron" paint ? Anyone can buy 4.0/4.6L. long blocks for 100-$150. outright. Why such a "British" suggestion ? Cross bolted mains, crank driven/superior oil pump, 1 pc real seal, 4.6L crank will grind to 3.4" stroke w. 2" rj's., can machine and weld for (6) bolts per bore/TA head. Flanged sleeves are cheap, no bottom end problems. Once it's in the car, only "you" will know the differance, the guy beside you, that just lost, won't have a clue. It does have the bastard bolt pattern, for BH, but D&D has this stuf, so does GB.There is (1) of these, making impressive power with a 4.02" bore! These blocks are available, new from Cosworth/Coscast. Once you get past, it's British", life get's easier. Consider that without the original design of the 215 Buick/Rover, the sbb, as we know it, might not exist. Onward, roverman.:TU:
I for one was involved in the Rover-head thread. It went cold long before the heads came out. Have you even looked at the T/A website? There is no mention of the Rover heads anywhere on it. Not one. You have to download the catalog and scroll down for a while to find even a mention of them. And that mention has no usefull info in itou: So now its the Buick communities fault that T/A dosnt advertise them, then sells them all overseas before theyre even finisheduzzled: ---------- Post added at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ---------- Im sticking with my '64 300 because its original to my car, and in this car that means something to me. The only engine swap that I considered for my '64 was a V12 Jag:3gears: I was planning to put a 455 in my XJS and the V12 in my '64 Special... But I sold my XJS before the swap. I like British cars and will probibly build a 4.6 one day, it just wont be today.
I though while going through some old posts around here,i had heard talk of a iron 350 head,with a larger valve,and some good prt work,having the ability to hit 280 cfm or so? If that is true,wouldnt that be enough to support well over 500 hp at 350 inches or so? Then the 350-SP1 intake that was mentioned ,along with a moderate hyd roller cam,would be plenty to make an HONEST 450-475 hp SBB that would still be quite streetable? Some tricks in the rotater,and good stiff valvetrain,and 500 wouldnt be out of the question for a little more radical piece while still being pump gas capable and driven sparingly All the while not having to usea bunch of custom 1 off type parts?
Yeah... about that big bore, he started it and then nobody has heard anything more about it. I'm not even sure he got complete numbers on the dyno. It's been suspiciously quiet. Sorta like something unfixable might have gone wrong. Maybe you know more... Anyway, removing the stuff that holds the top and bottom of the block together is not a formula for success. I't ain't no LS with the head studs going into the main webs you know. With nothing but that aluminum top deck holding the heads on, how much power do you think it's going to make, for how long? Can you say, "GRENADE!"? I suspect he started having head gasket issues right off the bat. And there's a limited number of trannys that work with the old BOP bellhousing pattern. No 2004r for sure. No TH350. No 700r4. Can anybody say "Adapter"? For manual there's a D&D bellhousing, what are they up to now? (call for quote) Cost $200 in 1987, care to guess? Maybe double that? See, that's just the thing Art, too many things going against it here, especially where the 80 lb advantage is not that much and you can't really go to 5.7L. Now for a TVR it's perfect, or even maybe for an MGB although just about all of those have used the earlier motor and the Rover is beginning to go out of style a bit in favor of V6's, SBF and now maybe even the LS4 if a starter can be attached. If you really want to sell them, put 'em on ebay.UK where people will see 'em. Jim
If someone from this forum actually "builds" a TA headed, stroked 300, I will indeed congratulate them. Not quite epic, like Roadmaster, but at least a star in the sbb quest. Cheers, roverman.:kodak:
5-12-2011 by Mike Jr.: [h=2] Re: What's the Deal with the buick/Rover head for TA Performance?[/h]Hey everybody, the heads in the first "test" production run of 25 sets are all machined up and in the process of getting valve jobs to be sent out to Australia. They all look good so far so we're going to place an order for another 25 sets sometime soon. If you would like a set and haven't been put on the list, please call and reserve a set to make sure you get one from the next run. We're still working on making guide plates so that you can use Chevy style rockers. And other related posts. I guess Mike Sr's comments were in other threads. OK I was wrong, that was almost TWO years ago. WVMM, I think your first post on that thread was 12-11-2012, a year and a half later. I suppose you can be forgiven for not going back a page. Jim
Actually, my first post on the thread was on 11-26-2009 And I had been reading the thread long before that.
So the 2 possibilities for a SBB performance build are the 350/300 or the 350. The 350 factory heads can be ported to produce good power. You can be creative as some have in the intake manifold department or wait for the TA single plane. The 350/300 can use the TA head with one of the previously mentioned aftermarket single plane manifolds If the TA head is still not available, what factory head would be the best performer with port work? Did I miss anything? Paul
The 68-72 350 heads would be the best factory heads to port,I am considering useing them on my 300,and adpting an intake. Header choices would be whatever sbc headers fit on the Buick sister chassis with a Buick flange welded to them.
Isn't the intake and exhaust valve layout different for the 300 and 350 so you would need a hybrid cam to use a 350 head on a 300 block? It looks like the 300/340 iron heads have more room for porting than the 300 aluminum. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...-lil-guy-The-Mighty-300&p=1939907#post1939907 http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...-lil-guy-The-Mighty-300&p=1940221#post1940221 and for the turbo crowd http://www.chevroletls1.com/rover_v8.html Paul
