Why arent there a plethora of 11 and 12 second NORMALLY ASPIRATED sb buicks around? And ,yes i understand the factory only available head issues,but it wasnt too long ago where everyone ran iron heads so to me ,thats no excuse
Maybe you're used to seeing the big block guys to get there with 100 more cubic inches and the airflow from bigger intake and exhaust ports. The small block heads don't flow what the big block can. Stick a tuned, ported and cammed naturally aspirated SBB in a light car and those times aren't a problem. Truth is, in a heavier car like the coveted full weight A bodies, it isn't as easy. Devon
The only reason there are not more 350 cars running fast is becasuse not many people try. Here is a simple 420 HP low comp engine that woke up with a few PSI and made 630 HP.. They have since cranked up the boost and it is making an estimated 740 HP, fully street worthy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zktYYQhCtqU I am doing a similar build but with twin turbochargers.... Expecting similar power, and the blocks are strong enough to handle it. Here is a simple combo in the 11s with a full weight car: Stock 1973 block and heads. The rotating assembly is all stock parts inspected and balanced. I had a larger 5/8" oil pick tube installed along with a melling oil pump rebuild kit. The deck was zeroed. KB118 cam was degreed in. The heads used stock valves and rocker arms but have been ported, polished with the heat crossover filled. The intake is stock with the exception of being port matched. Both the heads and intake were milled for a static compression of 11:1, 8:1 dynamic compression, stock bottom end with milled deck, Modded Holley 4175 carb It was flowing around 800 CFM. - KB118 camshaft LSA 118 / ICL 113 ADV. 276 /295 ACT.@ .50 228 / 247 int .487 / exh. 475
16 year old Anthony Mackley built it himself for his street driven Skylark. I will have a full write up on it in my upcoming book. I have the exclusive scoop on the build as I provided the core and forced them to doa 350 not a 455.
Sean is your book due out in spring in Canada or the U.S. because that could vary by several months. But seriously I can't wait for it to be available so I can keep my SBB and still make lotsa power :grin:
Sean, you had better let me know when the book is available. I defiantly want one. my paypal account is waiting. LOL Tim
I understand BB Buicks can make more power on average,but thats not what i asked? I specifically asked ,how come you dont see many hard running NORMALLY ASPIRATED SB Buicks? (NOT TURBO,NOT NITROUSED,NOT PROCRARGED!!!!!!!!!!!!) There are dozens of non Buick 350 inch-ish SB motors that run well,so why not as many Buicks? I realize the cars may be heavier,but still,even a hi 13-low 14 second A body at 3800 pds ,wouldnt run 11s ,if hat same engine were put into say a 3200 pd car? There must be a reason why? Everyone states the aftermarket intakes are no good ,and the factory piece is better,yet everyone says they need a intake made by someone to make power?Whats a \modified stocker work like? The factory iron heads with larger valves and some porting will go mid 250s-260s cfm relatively easily Thats enough cfm to support 500 hp when built correctly Custom cams are available by every company almost,yet the same grinds are used all the time Theres tons of SB Buicks vehicle out there,but still,they are far and few in between that run very hard? Just an observation is all? As a avid car guy who likes the mechanical part of the hobby maybe more than the looks side,i struggle to comprehend why noone puts forth a more serious effort on these motors? There must be a reason beyond money,because lets face it,nothing speed related is cheap!!! IM ALL EARS Good day!
Well in my opinion, and by that I mean MY opinion. The SBB is poorly suited for drag racing:shock: They just dont like to rev as hard a SBF/SBC. Im probibly going to piss some people off, but thats what I think. I think the SBB is great street engine with tons of low-end grunt and passing power. Im not saying a quick 1/4 mile SBB isnt possible, far from it. But their strong point is the gobbs of low-end power. The torque-band of a stout 350 Buick is around 2000rpm lower than a stout SBC. (stout meaning around 400tq) And torque is what you actually use when you drive on the street. By the time you get above 400tq with a SBC, its becoming a PITA on the street. A 400tq 350 Buick will run almost as smooth as stock, untill you mash it to pass:3gears: So what they lack in the 1/4 they make up for on the street. IMO:bla:
Just look at Undderdog350 on here Pure stock 350 running 13.70s with a unported head ,iron intake,small cam,342 gears etc at 3660pds Should be cake to get into the 12s yet you just dont see it? o No:
I think it's the bore/stroke ratio. With the bore limited to about 3.800" the size of the valves that can be put in the heads is limited. That means it can't run valves as large as the SBC and SBF. Like it or not and regardless of the flow numbers, almost everyone believes that larger valves mean more flow and more flow means more power. This is mostly true in racing, where maximum output is really all that matters. Along with the smaller bore comes the longer stroke. A longer stroke limits RPM potential, like it or not. Simple physics. Yes, you can run stronger rods, pistons, and cranks but so can the other guys so in the end, less max rpm and in racing, RPM is power and again, maximum output is all that matters. It's a limited perspective of course. Regardless of how much racing technology makes it to the street the two applications are very different, as I learned early on in playing with boosted engines. Consider this. Conventional wisdom says with a blower you also need big ports, a big cam, and low compression. But this is FOR RACING! What does this do to your driveability? Just what it does with any similar build, the off idle and low rpm performance absolutely sucks. And the reason I'm using a boosted illustration here is to show the dramatic difference more fully. This engine at max output will absolutely scream, the power is off the chart. Just what you want in racing. So really great for one task, absolutely horrid for the other. And gas mileage sucks either way. But what happens if you use a stock set of heads and a mild cam, with a more typical (for the engine N/A) compression ratio? Detonation? Heck you can get detonation with either build, it depends on boost level, timing, and fuel mixture so you have some control of that. So let's disregard that for a minute. OK, the first thing that is noticeable is a decent idle. Next, off idle and low speed performance is strong. Then boost comes in and gives strong power through the mid and upper speed range and extends the RPM capacity of the motor by more complete cylinder filling, and finally, fuel economy is decent. This sounds like a great street engine, the area under the torque curve starts high and climbs fast. Max horsepower is down but average torque is way up. Not a good racing engine, but for street driving where throttle transitions are extremely important and low speed use is commonplace it is excellent and has really good power as well. In a similar way, the bore/stroke ratio of the SBB is shifted towards street applications. It is designed to fill out the area under the torque curve, much like the second illustration above. True, you can build it into a pretty decent racing engine, in some cases enough to surprise a lot of people but in the end it is hardware limited. There just isn't anything you can do about the bore size, so all that is left is changing the stroke, meaning basically a step backwards to either smaller displacement (such as with the 215 with it's F-1 racing heritage) and specialized classes, or... I was about to say longer strokes with even lower rpm limits due to maximum piston speeds but that won't work. There isn't room for it. The bottom line is, the SBB makes a great street engine. That is it's real strength and I think most people realize that. In my opinion the only really practical way to make it competitive as a racing engine is with power adders since you can always add more pressure, but on that topic my opinion counts for nothing, as I am not a Racer. Some who are will probably set me straight. On the street though, it is a fine engine with great potential and does an excellent job. Jim
There are 3 different Buick 350 cars that run in the mid 11s with no power adders, no head porting, stock lift cam, no oversized valves, no aftermarket intake, and a Q jet. There is no reason we can not run 10s NA with the Buick 350 using head porting, roller cams and a sheet metal single plane intake. Speaking from experience here the main issue with the Buick 350 is not the fact that it does not rev well it is the fact that is does not breath well at high RPM due to "constipation" as sonny seal put it. The piston size limits the the head flow of the engine and this combined with the lack of a good intake leads to a dog at all RPM. Adding boost makes the cylinders fill up nicely. There is a reason that the Buick 350 makes about 120 HP off a 100 Ho shot of nitrous... More effective cylinder filling. The winning recipe is a 11:1 Buick 350 with just 30 over pistons, ported heads, TA roller cam, Burton Machine single plane intake, 850 holley, dual 2" primary headers, 3" duals... Or any old 350 with some boost to correct all the above issues without any engine mods.
