I agree running the mainstream brands is cheaper and easier. I did a cost analysis on a Chevy 496 stoker build. Calling the engine builder getting g quotes and all. I could of had a nice 496 making an easy 600 hp for 4500 with a warranty. If I would of just had them do the machine work and prep the block in could of come in around 3500 bucks. I've got 6500 in my BBB that's girdled and all with Aluminum heads.i had to wheel and deal to do that though. Bought the girdledblock and forged assembly second hand as well as everything else but the Aluminum heads. If I would of paid straight retail and all the machine and engine shop costs it would of been thousands more. If you get into buying second hand chevy big blocks they're easy and cheap to come by. A lot of times with the forged parts already there.
This board is the wrong crowd. The vast majority of active users do not race or even are restoring their cars. Most of these guys have finished cars and they are happy with them. Yes this is a blanket statement and there are exceptions of course but I'd say its 85% accurate.
With me it has always been the fun of beating the brand Xs with a Buick, sure there are the big horsepower factory cars out there now that supposedly run 10s or better off the show room floor, but very seldom are you going to encounter one on the street. At the strip, with the exception of some big national meet there are classes for everybody. I used to have as much fun at the time trials picking on Camaro's Mustangs, Roadrunners or whatever than I did in eliminations. If you have the money you can make ridicules horsepower but if you don't you can still have fun. Bob H.
Threads like this make me imagine the possibilities of a 1969 Buick F body. But yeah the smaller Buick market compared to the size of the Chevy or Ford or Mopar markets and simple economies of scale are a big hindrance to seeing a lot of crazy Buick builds all over the place.
I think the Olds guys are in the same hole. The Dick Miller event in Ohio made it obvious to me. The fastest cars there were LS powered. My buddy bought a brand new aftermarket Olds block up there. It was iron, and right around the same price as the tomahawk. I’m not sure who makes it, but it was s really good looking piece and capable of big cubic inches. He and I are both 46. From what I saw, there was hardly anybody younger than us running olds motors. It doesn't help that they don’t run any heads up classes there either, IMO.
Lots of passion coming out in this thread; that's good, it shows that there are those that will explore the limits of what a Buick can do. I've always wanted to, but I'm also of that demographic that is winding down and, not to beat a dead horse, the $$ just isn't there to play. Sure, I'm a purist when it comes to Buicks, but only if it represented as a "restoration" to stock. If it's an obvious hot-rod, OK, that's different. But there have been instances where the "right" car comes around that you know will be too much to put back to stock, so why not hop it up and have some fun... And then I pull out my wallet and let the moths out. For years we were told no one would ever build and design speed parts for Buick engines; it was like putting a blower on a farm tractor. It's nice to see the support coming on and that there are guys who have the wherewithal to do something about it.
Good thread. Jim was spot on with his post. Low body count, lack of funds, lack of time and perhaps lack of ability, add up to overall small numbers in comparison to other brands. I'm doing my part by building an 8 second pump gas street car that I'm "hoping" to have finished in about a year. We'll see, because if any of the above things get in my way it'll slow me down and push that date backward. We need more motivated rich folks to join our Buick brotherhood!! (And dont get me wrong..... I'm NOT rich by any means......just resourseful and thrifty when needed! Lol)
The shop that does my machine work said the same thing. for 1/2 of what I spent on the now broken 455 he could have put me into a higher powered BBC and it would still be alive. I agree but what fun would that be? Told him ok, I'll give you the go ahead on that when I buy a Monte Carlo. As long as it s a Buick body it will be a Buick engine.
Them "600" hp crate BBC engines from the rebuilders usually run like they are hungover,...I've jerked the bumper off a bunch of them turds
Funny story along these lines. My wife hasn't given me much greif at all about the + or - $20k or so I've sunk in this $12k car, and she seemed in a good mood so I gave it a shot. Me: "Honey, TA has their tomahawk blocks on sale. It would remedy all the shortcomings I've complained about, could make more power and more reliable power. It's really a good investment for what I'm doing." Her: "Well if it's a good buy and a good move for what youre trying to do." Me: "It is." Her: " So just curious, how much is it?" Me: "$4500" Her: "Are you joking, cause if so, it's not funny. We got a 9 month old, $4500 blocks aren't happening. Sorry, but that's just crazy." Me: "Yeah, I know... But I had to try." And then I get an advertisement for a turn-key 815hp 632 BBC for $12k, carb to pan. I have that money in my 532hp BBB. So if it was hungoverh and made 100 less hp than advertised, it'd still stroke my mill for the money. Point is, our limited market share and limited suppliers just can't compete with that. I'll do my damnedest to always keep a Buick mill in the green car, but we're always gonna be second fiddle. We can't keep up because it costs us 150% (or more) to do what the mainstream brands do, and for working stiffs like me with mouths to feed, that cabbage doesn't grow on trees. What's it cost to build an 800hp pump gas tomahawk? Better yet, a streetable iron block making that? (I'm not sure ive seen an NA pump gas one making that. I'm not sure I've seen an NA pump gas iron block over 700). The aftermarket support just isn't there, whether it's a limitation of the design or whatever, I don't know. And although what we do have is some super quality stuff (pretty much just TA for Buick specifics), we have to pay a premium for being a niche market. Ethan, I love ya brother, I feel you and I are cut from the same cloth, and i can't wait to share some Yuenglings with ya in BG, but for me and most of the Buick guys I know personally, our trade off for keeping our cars tri-shield powered is getting less bang for the buck. And the bucks are the limiting factor. Smaller market+premium price=less guys doing the big exotic stuff. Those that are fixated on absolute top performance arent gonna let car brand stop them, they're gonna head to greener pastures where the blocks and heads flow like wine. We are all stepchildren in that right. I haven't checked the lottery ticket in my wallet though, maybe I can edit this response after I do. Twin 88's on a tomahawk, coming right up!! (Sorry for the long rant, damn good scotch....)
Yea, I we are a minority for sure. and I guess per capita, we are probably in line with the others, just trying to spur some motivation ha. But if anyone has the means to build something different than the status quo, do it!
I've got the desire in spades!! It's those pesky greenbacks (or lack there of) holding me up... Everytime you update your tomahawk build thread, I about have to wipe down my phone from all the drool on the screen!
Here's where you went wrong, it should of been; Me: "$6,500" Then the same as what you wrote and in a couple of days could of been; Look honey, that Tomahawk block I was telling you about is on SALE, $2,000 off!! Seeing how most women can't resist a sale, she might of said; "Wow, we can't afford not to get that!" Maybe next time?
You may think I'm about to tell a story, but it's the truth and my wife will tell you it's true. But i sold my Tomahawk block idea to the wife the same way as you Shawn,..but Tater it will actually save us money,...her: how stupid you think you I am,..but in the end a few side projects fell in place and we were able to pull it off. I'm an extremely lucky guy, and im thankful for what I have and who I have around me for sure. I've got more irons in the fire than anyone I know,..but I'm stubborn as a mule when it comes to my Buicks,..I will see the project thru and still keep up my other obligations. It's extremely tough at times but it's all I know, eat sleep and breathe ha.
I think I could have pulled it off before my little dude showed up. But he's changed things for sure (and that's ok, it was expected to change). That's life and the decisions we make during it.
I believe you are talking about the "Rocket Racing" Olds Block. They are about 20 miles from my shop. I've been there a few times and you are absolutely correct in that John's cast iron Block looks like a work of art, ..... so much so that he has one in a display case in the front window of his business. I have no information as to it's reputation though. On one recent visit John Stolpa and I discussed the possibility of getting his crankshaft supplier to work with us on making budget billet steel crankshafts for the Buicks. I believe he stated that quantities of a particular size are where the affordable pricing would take place, ... which only seems obvious. His Olds crankshafts are $1895.00 so if they can sell a Buick version at that price point it may be enough to push folks into heftier builds, ... especially if the Cast Iron Block that Mike Tomazewski Jr. speaks of in the TA website comes to fruition, ... In which case I would be very interested. JW seemed to sum it up in proper perspective. Larry
I think the Buick community as a whole , is very "traditional" regarding their Buicks' and the performance they are happy with... We finally have some stout parts, if your goal is to make horsepower and/or go fast, but those traditional values have made the community "content"..A relatively mild BBB can perform pretty good, keeping the "majority" happy.. That 1% that says "screw it" I want a fasst Buick is still parts limited, but realistically, it all cost money... Buicks are usually NOT owned by younger people... I am a 1%, I'm banging my head against the performance wall, with my nitrous fed Tomahawk BBB. When "people" see my Buick run, they come back to the pits to check it out, and are impressed with the Buick powerplant...It is still a challenge, and an expensive endeavor....We are small in numbers........... Gary G.
some of us go back about 50 yrs for buick performance. there was stuff offered for the nailheads, but nothing really for the other engines. k-b offered stuff that basically was above oem, nothing like we can get today. I wish I knew then what I know now. I would have bought a bunch of nailhead stuff. I think there was more nailhead stuff then than now. I know when I ran nhra stock back in the early 70's, the cost to build a buick engine was not much more than the other brands. now nhra stock is out of site. I have been doing the 350 for about 13 yrs and I have well over 5 digits in costs which includes a lot of buying and trying to adapt other brands to the 350. some successful, some not. a lot of cut up parts laying around. would I do it again......YUP, but I would have started 50 yrs ago with todays knowledge.
