The world of Buick guys is smaller for sure, how ever restoration companies base their future reproduction parts on requests. 1/4 panels, core supports were HIGHLY requested items for the 70-72 models! 60 Pair of 1/4 panels isn't very many at all compared to requests they heard! Most understand that a percentage of the people requesting parts will NEVER buy them, that's the way some people work, how ever is there a better way to base what parts your going to re-po then requests? Not that I'd know of, and because of long development times on some of these parts its not going to work asking for "deposits " I know Mike is on edge because of restorations being part of his lively hood, but if restoration companies can't even sell the required first run of these parts for the most popular '70-'72 cars, the other years don't stand a chance of EVER getting parts made. Times are tuff for sure, and attendance is dwindling at Buick events. But do yourself a favor and check out other events near you. MOST are larger then ever, Good Guys events are setting records for attendance, The Hot Rod Power Tour this year was the largest ever, I personally attended the Mopar nationals at Columbus this year, it was HUGE!!! Many fast street car type events are at damn near capacity for the tracks they run at. The economy has definitely effected the "hobby" but their are MANY still out there enjoying it. I chuckle when I hear "Buick guys" bitching about low prices or lack of TV coverage on the Buick's/ Gran Sports during the televised auctions... We can't have it both ways, high prices at auctions then bargain basement prices on parts, restorations, supplies... Paint and body work doesn't cost more on a Chevy/Ford/Mopar then it does on a Buick, restoration parts MAY cost less do to the volume being made, but compared to the cost of any remaining NOS pieces that's a bargain. As Mike said ANYBODY needing or think they maybe needing in the future any of these parts will do well to purchase them if able to. Because no doubt when their gone, prices will go up, and the number of cars being restored will go down.
Maybe, but like I said, I don't know the answer, someone else has to do the math on that. If I had a bin full of repro quarters, and didn't need the cash, they would be sitting right where they are. I would know that I had parts for customers cars for a long time. That's good in the resto business, money in the bank. A fire sale would be the last thing I would be thinking about. So Mike, you know him well, since you say that the prices on full quarters are going to skyrocket again, then why is Mark selling them at a bargin now? That doesn't seem to make any sense. JW
I can see both sides growing up around business owners and working on old cars. Here's what I see from a business side. My uncle closed up his industrial repair shop after 20 years because it was just not worth it anymore. He went from stretching and repurposing semis and a waiting list that was 2 weeks long, to fixing broken mounts on small snow plows mounted to rotten 1/2 ton pickups. The same guy who turned a shortbed dump body into a HD car hauler with hydraulic bed, was down to welding new teeth on a backhoe just to have a job to do. Once the EPA regulations started to get stricter on how to dispose of things and what products he could and couldn't use in repairs he was priced right out of his comfort zone. The biggest money maker for him the final few months was in cutting up junk trucks and selling the scrap to a local scrap yard. It just became cheaper to buy a new truck than for him to rebuild one. It's sad but that's what happens when there's too much regulation and too many super cheap parts coming in from overseas. People would rather mickey mouse a junk part than to do it the right way with good parts since the price difference is huge right now. Here's where I come at it from a car guy side. I've never had a car I could build from a catalog. Usually by the time they make parts for it it's already rotted away to nothing. If you have the time to do everything yourself than you probably don't have the money to do it. If you have them money you probably don't have the time. My car needs a roof panel. I could have one for $125 or so. It will cost another $4,000 to have it put on and have everything smoothed out nice. I can replace the car for $2,000
I have a similar story, except for the making more than ever part. I'm making a 1/3 of what I was 4 years ago or what I was in 1992. My current project doesn't have "ANY" parts available in the aftermarket so I have purchased the tools to make my own parts. After reading this - when I get the opportunity to get the 70 skylark/GS I want I'll make those parts too. Sheet metal work is not that difficult. Think about it, you can buy the tools once and use them forever or you can buy the parts from someone else and line their pockets. I vote for buying the tools and putting up with my own learning curve.
800 68-69 console lids Mike? Are there even that many console equiped 68-69's on the road? I do see your point in having the stock just sitting there growing cobwebs,that sucks,but when you guys produce way too many parts than demand will dictate....why do we all prospective buyers get a tongue lashing? I have many dead or slow moving parts on my shelf also.But it's MY fault for ordering them,not the consumers.
I would say he was blowing them out cheap at the Nats simply so he would not have to pack them back home. Seems to be the norm there if you can wait it out at the Nats vendors row till the last hours you can get some real bargains. However you chance loosing out if someone beats you to the punch I would have thought that with the many restoration shops that do Buicks there would have been more bought up by these guys for future restos. Or are they playing the waiting game as well. Don't buy until you need them. Sounds to me like Mark may sell a few now that the word is out on them becoming scarce. How many sets of quarters and core supports do you have in inventory Mike?
I know my build is taking too long when.......... I started it and 1/2 the parts I needed were not made And when I am almost finished - they are NO LONGER made..... ou: I did buy some by the way:TU:
Mark did not sell these for $400, AMD did. Mark took pre-orders for people that were going to the Nationals so they could pick them up and take them home to save shipping. AMD wants these parts gone from their warehouse, and once gone they will not be selling them anymore due to poor sales. It's not Mark/Then and Now, it's AMD who made this decision. They made it based on history of sales on a new line of parts. Pretty simple business principals. I'm pretty sure the price will go back up now. Mark was the only retailer offering this pricing since he was the one that convinced them to make these parts several years ago, and was willing to transport and sell the parts for them. Thanks for the parts, Mark. :TU:
With all due respect Tom you are comparing apples to oranges. The famous people you mention had ideas for things the masses could use and/or need to survive or make life easier. All I'm saying is if a person comes up with an idea for a small select audience, and it isn't something that is totally necessary, or people can do without, don't be offended if it doesn't sell. It's like buying stocks some grow and some don't. I don't think anyone on the board here deserves to be scolded because they didn't purchase the parts. Bob H.
COME ON!!!! Really?????? HMMMMM!!!! Who was impacted by the steam engine? Oh, I don't know - the entire country at that time. Who was impacted by the light bulb? Most of the planet and still being impacted. Who was impacted by the assembly line, everybody. Now, who was impacted by reproduction 70 to 72 Skylark parts? Yes, people take chances. That is part of life. Placing blame for the results of that risk on others that may or may not have had any part of the risk takers decision, that's crazy.
I was told that the inventory must get sold or trashed so they could fill the spaces for parts they move more frequently. I was hoping they would see that others stepped up and maybe keep moving forward. I needed hoods I've been waiting on them. I have 5 sold now if they had them. ---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:54 PM ---------- It should make sense when the parts are gone the demand will rise and the price will too. I saw 75 core supports go to $1000 I saw 71 grills bought new at $150 sold for $3500 you don't think these $400 1/4s won't be sold for $1500 ?? They are as nice as nos why wouldn't they? I've used them I know the differences and its not a lot. ---------- Post added at 05:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 PM ---------- Jamie I had a minimum order it was 1000 I sold a couple hundred and 1 this weekend. It sucks to own do much when no one is buying anything. I do the minimum on everything I build anymore too. ---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ---------- I have several nos and repro core supports I have several 1:4s too along with everything else I bought one or two items serve real times a year to stockpile. After all I see first hand the repro parts business. How many do you want to order?
Please note my usage of "such as". The names I listed are simply examples of people who wished to become successful as well as benefiting humankind by taking chances that others refused to. It is not apples to oranges, or cumquats.uzzled: Sure their imaginations impacted many millions, but how is that any different from the local person or small businessperson who improves or supplies a much smaller market? o No: Bob, and Opel GS, I actually agree with your statements about blame placement. :beer I'm sure Mike's initial post was venting and lamenting about the lack of interest in these parts. As for the economy being tough, there's work available for anyone who really wants it. It may require relocation, which I know, scares many people. ---------- Post added at 07:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ---------- Here's one more name to ponder: George Hurst. Many car nuts only know him for the shifters installed in their cars. What if his improved shifter had not been so well accepted at the time. Would he have persevered, or thrown in the towel?? Who here knows what else he invented, which although not as well known, has benefited humankind?? Take your time, and no Googling either. :laugh: How about asking a non car person this question.
I can't believe this thread has had this many responses. I am only interested in dealing with '64-65 Buicks but here's my take on it: 1. People that said they would buy didn't buy - This frustrates me. Aside from losing a job or having an unexpected major bill/life event, this is inexcusable. People seem to think you can make a brand new product from thin air and it just isn't so. I now have access to a soft material stamping machine and a CNC router. A while back I thought I saw some discussions on hard to get (if not impossible) flat gaskets so I posted that I have the capability to reproduce some of them but no one posted any recommendations. The stamping dies for this machine are very reasonable, however that's not the case when it comes to sheet metal or plastic parts. Those dies are EXPENSIVE, up to hundreds of thousands of dollars in some cases. That kind of money is not just laying around, it's tough to come by for almost every company right now. Being in a family of several small business owners I know why most companies aren't taking any chances right now, it could break them. 2. People that would/did buy - That's awesome that they were able to follow through on their promises. It's too bad that there aren't more people that can purchase the items, most of us would love to be able to save every classic car out there but the biggest reason in my opinion is... 3. The economy tanked a few years back and people have lost jobs and in some cases their homes and the bottom line is no one has extra cash laying around for hobbies like ours. We're more concerned right now about paying our house payments and utility bills. I lost my job last month and just got hired at another place for 4/5 of what I was making. That hurts. My car is and has been a budget build and if I could afford to spend a lot on it, I would. This is the main reason in my opinion that projects like this fail. As was said earlier, high-dollar projects like this are only viable during good economic times. We haven't seen those good economic times in over ten years so it just doesn't make sense to blame anyone except the yahoos in Washington and people who drastically over-spent on credit. We are a consuming society, I just hope we've all learned a valuable lesson when it comes to buying houses, cars, big-dollar toys and the like that we can't afford.
OK Tom the only other thing I can think of would be a smokin hot spokes model:Brow: https://www.google.com/search?q=mis...kCKrBygH3i4CgBw&ved=0CBsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=499
If, you ask a non-car person that happens to be firefighter/rescuer; they'll likely know............. (I'm not. But, my grandfather, great uncle, and greatgrandfather were firefighters)
i dont think he was scolding anyone...i think ya missed the message..the world is changing,and cars arent that important anymore.. If theres something you want you better get it before its gone.. 10 years ago goodmark repopped 70-72 chevelle convertible 1/4 panels, they did one run and they stopped...because they didnt sell well...they where around 700 a piece....they where ok..but not perfect...they bring 2500 each now..if you can find one...i think thats the message..
Here's one more name to ponder: George Hurst. Many car nuts only know him for the shifters installed in their cars. What if his improved shifter had not been so well accepted at the time. Would he have persevered, or thrown in the towel?? Who here knows what else he invented, which although not as well known, has benefited humankind?? Take your time, and no Googling either. :laugh: How about asking a non car person this question.[/QUOTE] What is the Jaws of Life?
Mike, It's useless to put out a post like this. The reproducers have been saying this exact same thing for 20 years now and nothing has changed. All you are going to do is get your blood pressure up for nothing. As far as the reduced prices on the sheetmetal, they are trying to get their money back for the cost of the parts & dies, and then move on. It's as simple as that. Also, a few weeks before the Nats I added a post about this to Mark's thread and I would bet almost no one called him to get the discounted prices. Duane PS. I wouldn't bank on some of these molds still being in existence for long either. Unless someone purchases them. I have heard too many stories of tooling getting lost or damaged and not being useful any more. The original core support dies are a good example. When some of us checked into the state of these dies we found some of the dies missing while others were rusted together and worthless. The same can be said for some of the molds/dies for parts I once reproduced. The company I sold my interior business to have not reproduced many of the kits I once sold. I am sure some of that tooling has either been lost or most likely trashed.
