toms roller rockers vs cam and valves from ta

Discussion in ''Da Nailhead' started by TAANK, Sep 17, 2007.

  1. 87GN@Tahoe

    87GN@Tahoe Well-Known Member

    SO, as some of you may know, i have been performing a "week long":Dou: "soft parts rebuild" on my 425 nailhead out of my '64 rivi... which has stretched out to longer than the projected week, as these things tend to do.

    Today i bumped into my TELESCO roller rockers and took a look at them..

    After over 15,000 miles of VERY HARD driving there is ZERO noticeable wear on the rocker arms where the shaft goes through.. no play, nothing..

    no needle bearings needed:TU:

    wes
     
  2. tyoneal

    tyoneal Active Member

    --------------------------------------------
    Have you gotten any results whatsoever on your Nailhead?

    I know you had the Ports worked on, but what cam, final compression, what rockers, intake manifold and carb(s), Headers (Shorty or Long tube) and so on.

    I would really appreciate ANY information you could share on this subject. What were the numbers? How were they calculated? Have you run the 1/4? What were you times? What transmission? Switch pitch or not Part number of one used, Rear end gear and posi or open rear.

    Also, Tire size, weight of car, 60 ft times etc. etc.

    I know it is a pain, but you would be doing your local Nailhead buddy's a HUGE favor by giving us some information.

    Pretty Please, tell us what you got with your combo?

    Thanks,

    Ty
     
  3. tyoneal

    tyoneal Active Member

    --------------------------------------------
    Have you gotten any results whatsoever on your Nailhead?

    I know you had the Ports worked on, but what cam, final compression, what rockers, intake manifold and carb(s), Headers (Shorty or Long tube) and so on.

    I would really appreciate ANY information you could share on this subject. What were the numbers? How were they calculated? Have you run the 1/4? What were you times? What transmission? Switch pitch or not Part number of one used, Rear end gear and posi or open rear.

    Also, Tire size, weight of car, 60 ft times etc. etc.

    I know it is a pain, but you would be doing your local Nailhead buddy's a HUGE favor by giving us some information.

    Pretty Please, tell us what you got with your combo?

    Thanks,

    Ty
     
  4. bills2x4cat

    bills2x4cat Well-Known Member

    I have been interested in toms roller rockers for quite some time. Can anyone tell me if I can bolt toms rockers on a bone stock 1966 401 without having to tear it apart to check piston to valve clearance? I dont really want to go through that right at this time. If I cant bolt it on and go im not really interested at this time then.
     
  5. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    I asked Tom that same question a while back and he said that it could be done. The rockers will work with all stock valve gear. Now if I can just figure a way of buying a set........
     
  6. 87GN@Tahoe

    87GN@Tahoe Well-Known Member

    I did it on my '64 425.. I checked the p-v clearance anyway, just to be safe... They were fine right out of the box though...

    It really is a question of if you don't check and something happens, are you going to blame someone else (i.e. Tom) or are you going to accept the responsibility?
     
  7. 87GN@Tahoe

    87GN@Tahoe Well-Known Member

    do you need contact info, Doc? OR just $$$?

    TOM TELESCO:

    E-mail, telriv@yahoo.com or telriv@msn.com
    Phone, days, 8Am-6Pm, M-F, (203) 324-6045
    Snail mail: Tom Telesco
    C/O Classic & Muscle Automotive
    465 Glenbrook Rd.
    Stamford, Ct. 06906-1820
     
  8. jamhdit

    jamhdit Just nuts about buick's

    TY
    i will keep you posted and list all my options soon. havent got it all back together yet and we still have snow here so i wont be going down the 1/4 mile for a month or so
    latest thing im thinkigh of putting on here is the gear veders over/underdrive

    got mixed reviews when i asked about it in the got gears section here

    jam
     
  9. DualQuad55

    DualQuad55 Well-Known Member

    The gear vendors set up is really nice. It doesn't have a true under drive though. They consider it under drive if engaged in 1st or 2nd gear, which splits the ration between each.
    I had one in my Suburban but pulled it out when I got a newer truck. I may use it in the 55 Special eventually.
    They handle a ton of power-something like 1200hp with no trouble, have very firm engagement, and cna be used under full throttle.
    The biggest drawback is the initial cost (although a well built overdrive auto with conversion for nailhead is as much or more). and the fact that they need a little room behind the trans-may not work well with an 'X-frame' car unless you do some trimming of the 'X' member.
     
  10. jamhdit

    jamhdit Just nuts about buick's

    The Measurments He Gave Me Should Fit B4 The X Member Im More Concerned About The Parking Brake Linkage Thats In That Area
     
  11. BuickMD

    BuickMD Member

    Just got my TA roller rockers. Now this is a set of rollers. Very complete. Shafts, rockers, spacers, billet towers, & ARP studs. $899.00. They did tell me the price was going to go up very soon so I got them. Friend of mine has Tom's, now he's jealous. Anyone else have set these yet? Way cool.
     
  12. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    don't you need pushrods and lifters too?
     
  13. BuickMD

    BuickMD Member

    There is a pushrod change needed. TA said I would need ones that are 8.300" long. 5/16 dia. with 5/16 dia balls on each end. They have them or they said I could get a stock pushrod from a chevy or ford, as long as it is 8.300" long. If you want you can change the lifters so they will oil up the new pushrods or just leave it be. The rockers will oil just like the stock ones if you leave your old lifters in. These rockers are way cool, if your even thinking of buying a set of rollers for your nailhead you needs to look at these first, so much more for your money. Actually, I cant believe they even built rockers like this for our nailheads.
     
  14. funkyriv

    funkyriv Well-Known Member

    If you have the awesome, original-Buick, finned-Aluminum valve covers, the TA roller rockers also requirie a valve cover change. This is what the catalog recommends. I haven't confirmed this with TA verbally.
     
  15. dschwarze

    dschwarze Well-Known Member

    I heard that also; need new valve covers. Would hate to give up the Buick aluminum ones.
    Dan
     
  16. BuickMD

    BuickMD Member

    They work with stock stamp steel and after market valve covers like the ones TA & Eelco sells. The factory cast aluminum covers that say BUICK on them are said not to fit.
    MJ
     
  17. BuickMD

    BuickMD Member

    You know I was just looking; you might be able to elongate the holes in the top of the factory Buick covers to get them to clear the TA rockers.
     
  18. BuickMD

    BuickMD Member

  19. 425 2X4 Nailhd

    425 2X4 Nailhd Well-Known Member

    I know this thread is old, but I think many are getting confused about the whole reason roller rockers were made to begin with in 1960.
    Once you make the rocker arm strong enough to virtually not deflect your done, adding needle bearings will not decrease the friction. The only real friction reduction benefit is having a roller at the valve stem tip.
    The needle bearing at first seems like it has less friction than a plain bearing right? Wrong. Why? A plain bearing that is pressure lubed will have a oil film between the two surfaces(HydroDynamic Wedge Effect).
    This oil prevents the two surfaces from ever touching.
    A needle bearing touches at the outer edges of the needles at a almost microscopic point. The amount of pressure at this point is extremly high. The oil film is actually penetrated from the extreme pressure. Hardened metal against hardened metal does touch.
    This is why when you take apart an old u-joint you see deep grooves in the bearing surfaces. It's actually surprising that highly loaded needle bearings last long at all. Todays needle bearings do last quite a long time.
    Ok enough of that.
    The reason you see alot of racing engines built using Needle bearings on the rocker arms and Camshaft bearings and even inside rollerlifter rollers is that they can survive with very little oil lubrication. So what? Why?
    Well the less oil raining down inside an engine that slams into the spinning crankshaft and rods, the more free horsepower you will get. The amount varies but a typical Pro stock engine can see better than 50 hp gain.
    Remember Baffles, Crank scrapers, Windage trays that's what they are for.
    Why spend (lose) more hp to spin a high volume oil pump just to cover the top end of your engine in excess oil.
    Want to test this oil hitting the spinning cranktrain theory?
    Swing your hand from side to side in the air as fast as you can, Ok.
    Now do it again in water, yes as fast as you did it in the air. You don't have the strength to do it as fast. If you have a swimming pool try running in the water. This is what the oil is doing inside your engine at high RPM's. Oil is not dripping at high RPM's it is a heavy flow going back to the pan.
    Obviously the engine needs enough lubrication to survive but using needle bearings and taloring the oil flow needs will make hp.
    The reason Tom's Rockers make a noticable power increase is because he eliminated the stockers weak flexing problems. The TA's Roller Rockers also eliminated the stockers flexing too. The power increase is from the additional lift and small increase in duration because things are matching the camshaft profile more close.
    I would not hesitate to use Tom's or TA's Rockers they both are perfect for your Nailhead. Think of it as two differant ways of doing something correctly.
    A Carter AFB 4BBL 750 CFM Carb. verses a Holley 4BBL 750 CFM.
    Both can be tuned to make the same power even though they are two very differant style carbs.
    Sorry for the looooong winded chat,
    425 2X4 Nailhd
     
  20. telriv

    telriv Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the positive feedback. No other parts needed & fit under ALL available valve covers. Sometimes using the KISS principal is the most advantageous way.
     

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