Serious Question about Global Warming

I'm no globalist. I simply pointed out that people posting here about CFCs not causing ozone depletion were wrong. I know they are. About global warming, go back and look at all my posts. I neither support nor reject it at this point.

To those that make fun of science, I offer this:

It is eerie that this is the 50th anniversity of the publication of "Atlas Shrugged," by Ayn Rand. From Wiki:

The main conflict of the book occurs as the "individuals of the mind" go on strike, refusing to contribute their inventions, art, business leadership, scientific research, or new ideas of any kind to the rest of the world. Society, they believe, hampers them by interfering with their work and underpays them by confiscating the profits and dignity they have rightfully earned. The peaceful cohesiveness of the world requires those individuals whose productive work comes from mental effort. But feeling they have no alternative, they eventually start disappearing from the communities of "looters" and "moochers" who bleed them dry. The strikers believe that they are crucial to a society that exploits them, and the near-total collapse of civilization triggered by their strike shows them to be correct.

 

I'm going to take a different path here, and discuss hurricanes. Yes, hurricanes. It seems that last year, the US National Hurricane Center forecasts were somewhat out of whack. If I recall correctly, there were more major storms than what they predicted.

Now this season, early in 2007, they predicted something like 15-18 tropical storms, with as many as 9 named hurricanes hitting landfall. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but just how much hurricane related rain fell on the American southeast this year??

Right, much of the US southeast is still experiencing serious drought, since there hasn't been any major hurricane this year. So how does this all tie in with global warming?? It tells me that weather forecasting is an inexact science at best, and a guessing game more often than not, and that is the crux of the issue here.

My personal opinion is that the entire global warming scenario is driven moreso by potential profit, ie: "carbon credits", "environmental friendly" products, etc. than by any future benefit to this third rock. Sure, we as a sentient society, do have an obligation to take less from this planet, and give more back to it, but I do not believe that the methods presently being touted, are the be all and end all solutions.

There are many more external forces affecting this planet's future than what we puny humans are currently doing to it.

 

Wow, i tried to start this off by asking to keep personal beliefs out, but guess it went off another way.o No:

Not selling Florida land cheap, but if the scientists are right my kids or grandkids will be.:laugh:

I've also read that Russia aisn't fully onboard with stopping global warming, partly because they see the enormous potential benefit of Siberia becoming usable farmable land. And someone did send me a PM regarding potential impacts on Canada.

True, maybe if Global warming is a reality it may just be that Global weather patterns will no longer be reliable and that we'll continually cyccle from storm to drought, cold to hot, etc.

And waiting 1,000 years aint in my plans, so the Appalachian beachfront property is out.

Still don't know where the kids or grandkids should buy land.

-- Steve

 

Actually, that is true.

If the "global warming" scientists are right or wrong, we'll know in a thousand to a billion years.

If I'm wrong, your truck won't start and you can't get to work tomorrow.

Which do you think will piss you off more?

K

 

Coming from Oregon, I see what environmentalists out of control can do. While you can guess where I come from, I lost all respect for the global warming movement when GM canceled any plans to build the Cadillac 16 due to concern over how it would look in this green age we live in and they canceled the Buick Velite to further explore hybrids. :rant:

BTW, the ozone will never close, it is always bring destroyed if for no other reason, it an unstable molecule. For all your environmental questions, recommend reading "Environmental Overkill - Whatever Happened to Common Sense". Great book. A democrat governor of WA and an expert in her field. She knew Mt St Helens would erupt even when the experts called her a fool - those experts were never found.

 

Hey I'm probably an idiot but I believe the earth has been warming since the ice age and there is nothing we can do about it. I think the global warming thing is a scam for someone to make money. Maybe by selling their so called green products. Also why is it that the scientists that don't support global warming lose there government grants. When Mt St Helens blew its top the scientists predicted that it would be 10 years or longer before there would be fish back in the upper Cowlitz river.Correction Toutle River. It took less than a year. And the wonderful tree huggers wanted to make a monument out of the blown down forest. Thats wierd they would rather cut down living trees and waste the ones that are on the ground. Conservation???? my -ss. You don't suppose those dead trees could dry up and create a fire hazard. Oh I forgot fire hazards are caused by global warming caused by G.W.:moonu: BS. Sorry I didn't post one of those creative offerings with all the scientific data but I'm also a high school drop out.
Bob H.

 

Steve, if my expression of personal belief is upsetting to you, it was not intentional. It's just that with so much discussion from both sides being bandied about, one tends to form their own opinions, based upon those discussions.

Here in Manitoba, our erstwhile Socialist Premier (aka Governor) has decided to align us with some of California's green policies. There always seems to be a hidden agenda with any political policy, his is to promote hydro electric power, which we have in abundance.

What is not considered in that plan, is the potential damage to other environments, such as the actual dam construction, often using old, heavily polluting equipment, Then there is flooding of ancient boreal forests, plus land claim settlements to the indigeonous people.

What was recently announced here is the proposed construction of a new high voltage transmission line from northern Manitoba along the western side of Lakes Manitoba, and Winnipegosis to Winnipeg.Here's the news release

This proposed line is some 300 miles longer than the more direct route, which is in eastern Manitoba. Now how about the extra construction equipment pollution, as well as the additional construction costs involved?? What isn't stated very loudly, is the fact that the longer the power line, the more electric power is lost during transmission. Sort of defeats the purpose doesn't it.ou:

Now for the other side of that debate. The main reasons given for taking the longer, more indirect route include concern for the Woodland Caribou's habitat being disturbed. We have a fairly substantial caribou herd along the east side of Manitoba, which the "environmentalists" fear would be decimated by a hydro transmission line, and its construction. What poppycock!!!! That part of Manitoba is very sparsely populated, and I would strongly suspect that the caribou would adapt.

It is difficult to keep personal beliefs out of thid topic, since there is so much information out there, and who is to know what is correct, and what is not correct. Or if there can be a one size fits all solution to this.o No:

Al Gore must be sitting back thinking about just how much richer he can get from all the hype and hysteria.:laugh:

Anyway, enough rambling from me on this topic, for I suspect that this debate will continue ad nauseum for many years yet. :boring:

 

And we are regulating ourselves right out of being a manufacturing country.

and that is their goal after all.

 

Anyone want to read about the plight of the Great Polar bear??

Click Here
Some really interesting info there.:TU:

For those who don't know, Churchill, Manitoba is world famous for its Polar Bears, especially around this time of year. Their migration pattern has them wandering around the town, which can make Halloween very interesting for the kidlets.

The local conservation officers take extraordinary measures to ensure safety for both bear, and citizen. They even have a "polar bear jail", which apparently this year, was also air conditioned. As a taxpayer, I don't mind that expense at all.

Whether global warming is a human caused phenomonen, or just mother earth correcting things, loss of polar bear habitat is construed by many as a tipping point for further drastic ecological catastrophe.

My position is one of obtaining as much unbiased information as possible, and constantly evaluating my environmental footprint. I have no children, but that doesn't make me oblivious to the future of our species.

 

I Agree With Bw The Climate Constantly Flucuates. I Love It When We Get A Cold Spell And All The Global Warming People Have To Shup Up While Its Well Below Normal.

If You Want To Talk Science Has Anyone Notice The Clocks Are Off Or The Seasons Arent Exactly The Way They Should Be. Summer Is Going Int Fall Too Far And Just As Much Winter Is Going Into Spring Too Far. So Is Anyone Looking Into That?

 

More people should read Feynman regarding science. I wonder how many recognize the name?

Devon

 

About the hurricanes... the prediction does not state these tropical storms must make landfall, let alone in North America. In this respect, the predictions are more accurate than represented in this post.

 

Well, we made it to 3 pages so far. Usually by now a political thread starts going sour.........uzzled:

 

Global Warming is political? :laugh:

 

I'll keep it going . I believe that we as a people need to have a protect the earth first mentality . Having said that we also need to have good science when we make changes . I live in St Louis . Several years ago we were told that we needed MTBE in our fuels so that we could ssave the environment . Well my Expedition reacted to these reformulated fuels that were to burn 10% cleaner was to drop 20% in fuel mileage . The environment saw a net increase in emissions . Now we know that MTBE is leaching into the environment and causeing everything from polluted waterways to cancer in humans . After this was revealed the government allowed the oil producers to continue using it for 3 more years to make the investment pay off . Now I also remember that this caused a spike in gas prices to pay for the new fuel . So now I am out of the Expedition and my Buicks are idle . The country of China is making everything you buy . Just try to buy anything thats not made in China . I for one would be glad to pay more for an item thats made here by union workers making a living wage than all these .99 cheap trinkets that are so useless . We as a country need to get our heads out of our asses and realize that soon the world will own us and we will be insignificant . China holds most of our national debt . Oil is at 97 today , the dollar is at its lowest point in history , my home is worth less today by 20% than it was 3 years ago and we still cannot get our politicians to work together *&^% I am pissed and I hope you are too .

 

Think about this:

If there is no global warming, why aren't we still in the ice age?

Just my take on it, in a nut shell.

 

I think part of the problem is that no one is really sure if the Earth is a normally warm planet that has had several cooldown periods (ice ages) or a normally cool planet that has had several warmup periods (including the present). I'm sure of one thing, if another ice age is destined to come, our contributions to global warming ain't going to stop it from coming! It's just that it might not happen for another five or ten thousand years, and we might have melted or drowned by then. Also, the reason this hasn't deteriorated yet is because in politics, both sides of an argument are SURE they're right and they argue strongly for their side. In this case, nobody is sure of ANYTHING! You can't be sure, no matter what anybody says.

 

Sure it is......the Democrats blow it out of proportion, and the Republicans tend to dismiss it as a lot of houy. As I stated previously, I believe our climate has it's ups and downs just like the stock market. :Smarty:

I could have a lot of fun here but I'll pass on it.

 

In this respect, the predictions are more accurate than represented in this post.

it's 'more accurate' in that they've only had to make two downward adjustments in their forecast this year already and it still doesn't look like we're going to meet their latest, greatest mostest accuratest forecast.

and you want me to take them seriously?



Several years ago we were told that we needed MTBE in our fuels so that we could ssave the environment .

yeah, and who forced that down our throats? i'll give you a hint; the oil companies didn't have a damn thing to do with it.





After this was revealed the government allowed the oil producers to continue using it for 3 more years to make the investment pay off .

no, they 'allowed' the oil companies to keep using it because, at the time, it was the only additive that had the infrastructure that would allow the oil companies to produce blends which would meet the draconian EPA standards.

now we've got better stuff ... like Ethanol, which requires more petro products to grow, cultivate, harvest and process than it saves by displacing gasoline from automobile use. yet another genius Eco-retard move. the latest in a long line.

 

Weather Channel Founder: Global Warming Greatest Scam in History