Serious Question about Global Warming

Not asking whether you believe the science, or whether you think we shoul;d take action, etcv., etc. Just curious, and not sure where to get the answers:

Global warming folk say hey, Florida's gonna go underwater, Manhattan too, parts of the US are gonna be dust bowls, etc. etc.

One thing I've never quite picked up: where are we supposed to live, i.e. where is the new area with weather like San Diego gonna be? Oregon? Alaska?
Will the Carolinas be a hot nightmare with no water supply? Is canada gonna be the new US as far as climate goes? or does nobody even have any real projections?

I know it won't happen while I'm alive -- just wondering what the answer is.

-- Steve

 

I'm wondering along similar lines in regards to the wheat/corn/bean crop-where are the new areas to grow the crops in Canada

 

In 1922 the Washington Post had a big article about the climate changes,before they termed it global warming,and how the ice sheets were melting and seals dying.The low areas were going to be flooded,etc.Then in the early 70's Life magazine had a series about the coming ice age due to atmosphere pollution and particulates which were going to block out the suns heating ability.
Two prognostications that obviosly were flawed,so do we really know what is going on,and whats causing our current situation,and is it manmade or a regular cycle?The experts are devided on this so I guess its who you believe.
gary

 

There are two parts of the global climate change discussion.
Part 1. Is it taking place? The overwhelming consencous of science is yes. Global climate change is taking place, the rate of change is unprecidented and we are the primary cause. There is no scientific conspiracy to fool the public, scientist are not coming to these conclusion just to get grant money and keep their cushy university jobs.

Part 2. Predicting the future. This is where the arguements are as far as science is concerned.
a. How bad is it? Most scientist are scared. They are revising the models dailey and they do not show good things.
b. What can we do? Everything possible and that may not be enough.
My advice.
Wacky left wing evironmentalist. Get off your high horse. We need massive changes in how we make energy. The means safe nuclear power, ugly windmills, solar, etc. We are not in the position to worry about a few birds dying in windmills, we need to save the planet.

Wacky right wingers. Get your head out of where ever. This is happening. It is going to cost money, the fat white men at Exon are not going to solve this, or even help us survive.

What do I think will happen... does not matter because I am not someone who has devoted their life to reasearch on this. Look for information from real scientist who experts in the field. Just because someone has a Phd. does not mean that they are experts. As we all know there are a bunch of idiot with degrees. On the other hand there are a lot of really smart people with degrees. Those people have world wide respect and you can research that.

I wish that there was good news about this topic. I wish that it was not happening.

 

While not a Buick topic, this one merits a discussion, as long as the folks from the far left and far right in the political spectrum can control themselves..


Where am I on the topic??

Yes, the earth has overall warmed 1* in the last 100 or so years.. I don't think anyone questions that.

But the real question is why?.. and is it really "changing the climate"?

Yes, the Arctic Icecap is being reduced in size, but the Antarctic one is growing..

You may recall, after a recent hurricane season with a number of large storms, predictions came in that this was going to be normal now, because of "global warming".

This situation of gloom and doom predictions has happened time and again, and time has proven over and over again that these predictions were premature.

I have a problem with a "concensus" in science.. That statement indicates that "opinions" are in play here.. last time I checked, science has nothing to do with "opinion", regardless of how educated you are.

Opinions are based on Theories, and until proven, they are not scientific fact. If this were anywhere near as big a problem as it's being made out to be, there would be no problem with the scientific proof.

Unfortuantly, as with everything these days, politics are involved. There is money to be made.. and those who would benefit from either politcal standing, or can make a buck, are the ones sounding the alarm that we are all going to die off in a few generations..

Sorry, I'm not buying that line. As Gary mentioned 30 years ago the prediction was "The next ice age".. and at that time the "concensus" that it was coming.. and in just 30 years, which is just a sliver of time, they have done a complete about-face.

The only real option we have here is to do what we should have been doing for years now.. and some of it we are.. conservation of resources, reducing the emissions of powerplants and industry (cars are already there) and careful stewardship of the planet, but not at the cost of reasonable human needs to survive and thrive. Searching for new sources of clean energy, while realizing and utilizing the technology and resources we have available in a healthy mix, needs to be the real focus, but it's not, because as of yet, there's no money in it..



Here's my problem with scientific "consenseus"..

Back in the 80's we were all told that freon was destroying the ozone.. in the 90's most types of freon were nearly completely eliminated.. many, many folks took a big hit when it came time to service their car.. and it created a whole new industry, in which plenty of money was made.

Just recently, a study was completed, and the conclusions of the study were that "Well, we really don't know if that chemical reaction is happening in the atmosphere".. because we can't see it, can't measure it, and can't quantify it.. The "hole" in the ozone layer expands and shrinks from year to year, regardless of how many CFC's are released..

That's just one example, there are many more.. and I'm concerned with the real impact of enviromental extremeists on our day to day lives, more than anything else. Alarmists have always been with us, and always will be. Look carefully at their motivation for what they are saying, you can almost always trace the money, one way or the other..


And the real impact?

a $30 can of paint cost $300

if you don't manage the forests, they will burn, and your house might just be in that fire's way..

Refrigerant for your 70's car costs 10x what it should..

And we are regulating ourselves right out of being a manufacturing country.

And to me, that last one is the real concern.

 

Jim:
I agree with your conclusions. We are expected to be the enviromental police for the world, and we are the only ones paying the price for it. Whether it be with outrageous prices or loss of manufacturing in this country. We have China and Mexico, which are sucking jobs out of this country at an unprecendented rate and reaping the benefits for it, but care nothing for the enviroment. Climatic changes have occurred in this world for longer than history can record. We had dust bowls in the 20's and 30's and everyone thought the world was coming to an end. The scientists keep blaming it on emissions amd chemicals. couldn't be that we are approaching 6 billions people on the earth and cutting down trees and rain forests for " progress".
Everywhere I look I see forests being cut down for housing developments or strip malls. With all the concrete and asphalt we have laid down in the last twenty years soaking up heat from the sun, no wonder the earth is getting warmer.

 

Very well said, Jim.

I agree and really can't add anything beyond what you've said.

K

 

Jim,

I hate to say it, because it's rare, but I have nothing to add either!

I agree 100% with everything you said.

 

Jim and Steve -

I think that you are both partly right.

Jim, I think that it is a concern that we cannot maintain status as a manufacturing nation. We can't because we have some environmental rules, we have high expectations for our standard of living, and we want everything cheap. The current solution to that equation is to offshore the dirty, hard work of making stuff to places where the people are willing to trade health and environment for a little better economic life.

Steve, how can we blame the "third world" for trying to follow the path that we blazed over the last 300 years? We didn't worry about our environment until we ran out of resources that were easy to exploit. So it's kind of presumptuous to tell everybody else to lay off when we've already got ours.

I look at trying to have a "more sustainable" way of life as like being overweight and needing to do something about it. You can keep guzzling the beer and living like a hog, which seems like the most attractive option. But if you do, you just get more uncomfortable every day, and it's harder to make a change all the time.

I think that there are going to be political, social, and economic pressures to be more energy efficient and more careful of resources. I don't think it matters if global warming is the trigger for this, or ozone depletion, or lack of water in Atlanta. We'll be able to choose, at least for a long time, whether we participate or not. But it's going to get harder to buck these trends as more people get concerned about it.

 

Besides what was already mentioned, what has always bothered me is mankind's belief that we're important on this planet. We're not. It was here long before we got here, and it''ll be here long after we're gone as a species, just like every other species to go extinct. The only difference is that we're aware of it. so we worry about it. I say, what's the difference if we caused these particular climactice chages? There are going to be naturally occurring changes back and forth between warm and cold, and exposed dry land will be submerged in some areas, while in others, submerged areas will become dry land. We won't have anything to say about it when these thing occur naturally, and we can't really accomplish enough in this country alone to reverse the man-made climate changes going on around the world. It's silly to think the governments of the world will find common ground and work together harmoniously all of a sudden. The developing nations that haven't had a chance yet to have their own industrial revolution still want their chance and they resent us for trying to put the brakes on them now, when they're at the brink of entering the modern age. We're supposed to "go green" while half the world is pumping out carbon at an unprecedented rate? The hell with that!! Let the chips fall where they may, and buy yourself a boat, just in case. Whatever happens is gonna happen. This planet won't be completely clean until we're gone from it anyway. Just enjoy your time here. Worrying won't solve anything. Now, where the heck did I put that bottle? :beer

 

this is what needs to be done.....:idea2:

http://www.solarhouse.com/

:shock: personaly I think globe warming Is just another Bull$hit scam.... just like y2k...

here's why

http://www.terrapass.com/ IT's all about about :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar:

 

Back in the 70s there were snowmobile dealers in Missouri. Now, it hard to sled in Minnesota. I think we all know it is getting warmer.
If these scientists are scamming, who stands to profit form it? On the other side, who stands to lose? -Big oil - and lately they have had a loud confusing voice with a lot of money. The US can create millions of jobs, solve pollution problems, and clear military issues if we developed alternative fuel sources. This technology based economy will be followed by an energy based economy. If we do not rethink our goals I think we will fall behind.
And as far as the other countries go, since when do we use them as an example, have we become lazy? For the past 60 years, the US is the leader. Other countries are just following what we have created. Even if global warming is a hoax (which I dont believe it is) we would have a lot to gain in other areas if we put effort into change. I love to burn gasoline in my collection of toys, But I could care less what moves my daily driver.

 

I agree with Jim, very well stated.

 

You are all wrong. Renowned scientists recently discovered a major source of GW. In fact, it originates in the U.S. from hundreds of individual emitters, which when massed together cause a multiplying effect known as the Kilfarbian enigma.

source

 

The climate always changes. Greenland used to be fertile enough for Vikings to migrate to, until the climate cooled down and they left or died. The Brits were a wine-making powerhouse during Roman times, exporting wine all over the empire, until things cooled donw. Until very recently, their climate hasn't allowed winemaking there.

It has been demonstrated that CO2 levels follow temperature changes and NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. That's a little detail Mr. Gore has surely forgotten to mention.

My opinion:

- We only have one earth and we should not waste it.

- The current man-made global warming trend is a hoax to get your money and to give governments more power.

- We should find an alternative to oil, not because oil is necessarily a bad thing, but because it gives our money to people who want to kill us.

An interesting document on global warming:

http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/zjmar07.pdf

 

As far as land speculation goes, first see the following article for information to insure you will be around at that time.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/30/AR2007103002222.html

Next, make your move now to buy land near the foothills of the AppalachianMountains (the Rockies for you guys out west). This is very inexpensive land now, but will be primo beachfront property way in the future. Don't forget to use your wits and build your houses on stilts.

 

Wow, only one person attempted to answer the question. The rest, thus far, have just used it as a spring-board to voice opinions for and against global warming.

Although I do have an opinion on the science involved in whether it is happening... I'll refrain. Some OT is fine, but typically, threads have on-topic as well as off. This one does not so far.

As far as Florida sinking... you mean it isn't already? It's a giant sand bar.

How warming (if it happens, regardless of natural or human causes) affects things would depend on how much it warmed. Sea levels will rise. Temperate zones may become tropical. It would affect aggriculture, and it would affect wildlife.

Now, in the 70s and 80s, when some posters claimed scientists were predicting a coming ice age - the scientists were actually debating warming. Just because network news freaks over a harsh winter, making claims, does not mean scientists are doing the same. Omni and Popular Science were typically just rags - interesting, with some useful stuff, but mostly devoted to circulation.

The debate, at least as far back as the 70s, often involved degree. Some felt warming would cause catastrophic changes, while others argued the effects might only be obvious during certain seasons. There was also debate on the time-frame.

They typically agreed, however, that it would affect things like agriculture - differing in opinion of how much.

Let's say there is a large-scale warming and sea levels rise. This will affect water sheds, rivers, etc. So picking a good location to live will be difficult before it happens. It's safe to say Florida is a bad bet (as well as any other coastal region).

 

Neat studies/projections here: http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/

Personally I haven't collected enough info to form an opinion on the situation.

Devon

 

I think our earth is just going through a adjustment cycle just like the stock market does ocassionally. It really don't matter.......according to some newly discovered predictions from Nostradamus, the armagedden is going to happen in 2012 anyway.

May I note that he predicted the fall of a great leader (Saddam?) shortly after the fall of the twin towers.......and then a severe worldwide drought would happen shortly before the end. I wish I had better news guys, and not that I believe all of this, but I follow these things and this all is an amazing co-incidence. ou: