just my take....i do agree that the story run was poorly done and newsweek has alot to answer for. having said that, i have a few other thoughts....and i am in no way defending anyone who wrote this garbage but... give me a break! these people are unbelievable. anything you do or say that they dont like, they start going around rioting and killing and bombing and causing all sorts of anarchy. seriously WHAT THE F*CK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?!? im getting so fed up with the middle east. all they have done is bitch and fight and bicker since biblical times. all these people know is death and destruction, and they are quickly losing a place in my mind as far as "usefull societies" go. seriously, what do these people provides other than death and destruction? NOTHING! they do nothign to help other countries, they dont better the world in any way....the only thing these countries yield is a bunch of terrorists. yeah, ill admit, america has become pretty immoral within the last 50 years. ill admit that we have done alot of wrong...but we contribute GREATLY to the betterment of the world through aid, medecine, research, and countless other things. what do they provide? the middle east nor the rest of the world will every have any peace because of these people. and these people are as much of a bunch of hypocrites as they come. they go around blowing themselves up in their churches, sawing off the heads of innocent civilians, mass genocide...yeah....sounds like a real fine group of people. ill admit, i do go to church and i may not be the best christian....but im not cutting peoples heads off and wiping out women and children. they point the finger at us for being dirty and infidels....when they are 10000x worse! im so sick and tired of this...and it will never end! NEVER! cuz theyll always have something to bitch about. i firmly believe that these people will never have peace. even if they wipe out every "infidel"....theyll turn on eachother. for the last 1950 years they have done it...and now all of the sudden they turn on the rest of the world. and as far as abuse goes. we do SOOOOO much at gitmo to help these people. this is the best food they have had EVER! we make special allowances for their religion, their food, we give them NEW korans, provide the best clothing they have ever had. oh but no we are so bad. wake up people! while these TERRORISTS are living it up at gitmo, our innocent CIVILIANS are being butchered and shot on internet broadcasts! oh yeah....dont you see the similarities?!? and hell, i think nick berg would have gladly worn ladies underwear, put on a leash, and forced to mastrubate before he would have chosen to be held down and have his head hacked off while still fully concious. oh...the poor little terrorists...the ones who are set out on killing you...they are so mistreated. give me a break. no, we arent the greatest...and no, we dont do everythign right. but by God, at least we arent running around blowing eachother up, rioting at everything we dont like, sawing peoples heads off, and all that crap, all in the name of our religion and getting away with it.
Maybe you should read what Gitmo and Abu Ghraib are being used for. These are both MAXIMUM SECURITY prisons. The people being detained aren't in there for unpaid parking tickets or being the town drunk. They are the WORST OF THE WORST!!! Do you actually think that they throw common criminals in with the terrorists? If that was the case they would need ALOT more space then whats available at Gitmo. :laugh: ou:
Have you writen a story about flushing the koran? Have you printed a story that you thought was ground breaking, but did NOT check for it truth first ,just to break the head lines and sell millions of copies? Did you in your story cost lives of people who had no idea what was going on, they were just trying to help. I have had alot of disagreements in my life and alot more to come,but just to send you over, Did you write it?
Glad you found this. It tells me the goverment cannot start up a religion or select one that we HALF to be a member of to have our freedom and sever in the goverment . DOES IT SAY THAT THERE SHOULD BE A SEPREATION OF CHURCH AND STATE ? NO! Does it say we cannot have prayer in public places? Such as schools, courthouses,Federal buildings and at milatary funnerl? Does it say that the ten commandments cannot be displayed in these places?It makes it clear for FREEDOM OF RELIGION.The only reason the alcu or any other group wants this is they have no commandments and if they did , They wouldnot follow them!
leo... leo... could you please either type more slowly or take up running your posts through a spell checker first? seriously, you're hurting your arguments here...
Funny that there is very little middle ground here. Either you first assume that the US is wrong and wait for the facts to unfold or you first assume that the US is right and wait for the facts to unfold. Probably (or prolly if you have been following another thread :laugh: ) obvious which group I belong to. One of the amazing things to me is the willingness of people to assume that the guys doing the interrogation/guarding of the Iraqis are a bunch of monsters or perverts. There may be both (you get both the good and bad with 150,000 people deployed and under great stress) but why is it so hard to assume that the soldiers are just like the rest of us. They deserve the presumption of good intentions. A parallel is people who assume that all cops are nuts and just waiting for the chance to brutalize or shoot someone. It just ain't so. Having run an organization I can tell you that it is one hell of a lot easier to sit back and critique what others have done than to be the person making it happen. Somebody has to play the game on Sunday so there can be Monday morning quarterbacks. Our guys in the military (and their civilian bosses) are playing their guts out....and winning the game with very few penalties or turnovers. It gripes my a$$ to see Newsweek (and people here for that matter) always, and without exception, blame America first. It is the height of intellectual snobbery and laziness. They beat their breast and say America is wrong. The nine times out of ten that they are wrong we never hear a word. The one time in ten they are right (almost nobody is allways wrong) you'd think they invented sliced bread. I'd be satisfied if the belated Newsweek retraction meant anything. I'd even respect them if they had the story right and decided it wasn't worth printing (which is a subject that needs to be covered). Alas, neither is the case.
I'll give this BB another week before we have a post that has similar characteristics. :laugh: It will either be like this one, or will be one or the other subjects. If another one doesn't come up in a week I will be shocked. :shock:
You are right about becoming a comunist country. Were is the spell check at anyways?Anymore buttons to push?
Leo, There is no reason to get quite so "on the chip" Here is the way that it works . Because of what John quoted, and he did so correctly,(thanks John) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion... This means that there can be no "official" or government sponsored religion. Because there are hundreds of different kinds of taxpayers in this country(all religions ,creeds, etc) all of us pay for the schools , courts etc in some way or another.If you use taxpayer money to "sponsor" a paticular religion by posting the tenants of a particular religion that is where the legal challenge comes from. You can choose any religion Leo. The "State" isnt supposed to "sponsor " it . If they sponsor it they are choosing it . On the flip side of this , people of other faiths would then have the right to have thier tenants posted in government "sponsored" facilities. Meaning , a Buddist, Muslim , Jew whatever would then be able to say , "I pay taxes too, where are my [whatever] that represents my religion?" Personally I would let that go so that all are represented, but that is what folks in middle America call "liberal." I call it "you do what you want , I do what I want and everybody is happy." Unfortunately, this is a slippery slope to chaos . Can you imagine , with all of the religions here in the States if we had to post all of thier tenants on government buildings. That is what would be coming . Then who would pay for it ---remember , it cant be the government. See how it goes around in circles? A lot of people dont understand that the law is an evolving thing. The system was set up this way. It has brought some positive things and percieved negative things too . I wont argue with you there. Hey , thats right , I can argue if I want -- because its America. I go to bed at night thankful for that. Take care George in DC
Wow, this thread has certainly degraded. Name calling, double-standards, and contradiction. Some posts even seem to imply that two wrongs make a right. There are too many things to comment on, so I'll just pick a few random ones. * Why is it that you assume every liberal assumes this? * George makes a very good point about the separation of church and state. To fulfill the intent of that separation, the government, as an entity, must give equal treatment to all. By recognizing a particular religion with prayer, statuary, etc., the government is in a way "forcing" that particular religion upon all people. Consider it from another angle. How many Christians would be content to freely practice as allowed by law, yet have to recite (or at least listen to) daily prayers to Hermes in public schools, view seasonal tableau on public grounds of Adonis' resurrection, or have their taxes pay to have the 50 names of Marduk engraved on a tablet in a court house? Treating different belief systems equally, either through government "recognition" or lack thereof, is not communism. * Someone made a broad generalization claiming Muslims do not object to terrorism. I know a number of Muslims - and they have spoken out against terrorism. They believe the extremists are evil, and are deeply offended that the terrorists are using Islam as an excuse. It is interesting to read some posts that criticize the media for showing only the negative, and then read further criticism selectively based upon that one side.
The Ten Commandments? Interesting that while so many Christians are fighting to post them everywhere, the churches preach from their pulpits that they were abolished- nailed to the cross. Sorry, I don't get it. o No: As for the ACLU (Anti-Christian Liberties Union). They defend NAMBLA (North America Man-Boy Love Association), Muslims, Satanists and gays, but have you EVER seen them defend a Christian or Christian issue of ANY kind in any way? There are people who lose their jobs because they won't work on Sabbath (Saturday) or are persecuted in the workplace. I know people who have been railroaded and fired for merely not being "one of the guys" because of their faith and refusing to go to topless bars with the other workers. Did the ACLU help? Of course not! Would the ACLU have stepped in if it was a gay who was fired for the same reason? Of course! What gives? Because the organization that became the ACLU was founded by American Communists for the express purpose of destroying the fiber of the nation and undermining American morals. Hard to believe? There is documented information on this available in many places on the web and in books.
Sorry for the delay - I'm back.... Only if it was my very own special Bible (the one that I write my notes in and wrote all the kid's birthdays in, etc). But even then it's the ideas/concepts/teachings that are important, not the paper and ink. K
We do already: to many serious Christians the celebration of Halloween is not far from this. I personally dread the month of October every year but just buckle down and go about my business. The use of tax dollars to pay for activities (I won't list any examples here so as to avoid any tangents) that are contrary to a person's beliefs is also commonplace and very offensive. Not paying your taxes is not really an option. Thank you for your well thought out and well written posts, by the way... K
I try to get out... but they pull me back in ! You're crackin me up !!! Some things to remember about the internet . There is often little accountability about truthfullness -- sites or organisations that have there own agendas can print as they wish . If an organisation like Newsweek can get it wrong, so can someone else. (see how I brought it back to the original topic?) The reality is that if ANYONE had an issue that warranted a cause of action by the ACLU they could approach them and do so. This is proven in case law. This is what is offensive to many. Both the perceived good guys and bad guys can have thier say and the ACLU will defend the both of them. Here is and example just from today: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/18/fbi.aclu.ap/index.html Unfortunatly as with any organisation, the extreme examples get reported or publisized and the everyday work that people do never gets seen. The Christain Coalition has the same sort of organisation to defend thier agenda and they definitly persue ONLY thier issues. Look, I am not a FAN of the ACLU but I do believe it is part of an overall system of checks and balances that works. Without the checks and balances it would be like , let see, removing the ability to filibuster so you could stack the courts with your own judicial nominees. (couldn't help it-- ok, feel free to go on that tangent if you want ) Have fun guys George in DC
>>>>>>> Love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. He said if you do these two things you are on the right track.<<<<<<<<<<< You do know that Jesus was quoting Dueteronomy and Leviticus when he said this, right? These are both Mosaic Laws.(a full ten percent of all quotes attributed to Jesus were quotes from the Old testament! :shock: ) Perhaps this was abolished as well. But you are right, Jesus said, "If you love Me keep my Commandments". I agree that the indwelling of His spirit is why (and how) we keep God's Ten Commandment law. If He lives in us, then He is actually living out the obedience to God's law, just as he did in His own life. That's ALL Ten Commandments including the fourth, right? So if we love Jesus and He lives in us, then we also honor the Seventh day Sabbath like Jesus did,(insitituted BEFORE the mosaic law) correct? Let's not cut off ten fingers and sew nine back on.... ********************************************************** Sorry to have mentioned the web in the statement about the ACLU. I know the internet has a stigma about it. But this knowledge is available outside and before the internet was ever invented. Have you done any homework on this? Too many even in my own religion think the ACLU will come to our rescue when persecution comes to the church. Guess again. I have no love for the Christian Coalition, either. They, too, simply have an agenda they wish to force on others. Much of this agenda I agree with, but too much power corrupts, and they will not stop at abortion and gay rights.
Just fighting fire with fire, I wasn't the first to generalize, yet I must have struck a nerve huh? :grin: Odd how you pick out my one genralization throughout this whole thread. Just curious, how come you didn't single out these people for their blatent generalization and stereotyping? Didn't you happen to mention something about double standards in your last post? Or do those only count against conservatives? Practice what you preach. :TU:
"Sorry to have mentioned the web in the statement about the ACLU. I know the internet has a stigma about it. But this knowledge is available outside and before the internet was ever invented. Have you done any homework on this? Too many even in my own religion think the ACLU will come to our rescue when persecution comes to the church. Guess again." Dont have to guess . Case law says different . We agree that any organisation is formed by like minded and like thinking individuals. Of course it will tend to lean in one direction or another. We also agree that too much power is bad for all parties involved. As Chris said the good thing is we have a system in place where all of these varied opinions can but heads, agree , and disagree. George in DC
