New Engine is Knocking

Discussion in ''Da Nailhead' started by KDML, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. telriv

    telriv Well-Known Member

    If you have a "Fast Ramp" cam you would be better off using the "Pro Comp" lifters. I don't know if they make the "869's" in Pro Comp. but you could ask.


    Tom T.
     
  2. telriv

    telriv Well-Known Member

    Also, I don't think, by looking at the picture, that the rubbing of the pushrod is really nothing to worry about unless you can actually feel a depression with your fingernail in the pushrod.


    Tom T.
     
  3. KDML

    KDML Well-Known Member

    New lifters were ordered. I ordered the 869's before I saw Tom's message. Looks like they do carry a Pro Magnum version (#865) as well.

    I can't feel a depression on any of the pushrods, so that is good news.

    Joe, not sure if I could go with a bigger pushrod. As I recall, there was little to no slack in the valvetrain on the drivers side with the pushrods I have. Once I have the new lifters I will re-measure for pushrod length, before moving forward

    Thanks all

    I am hoping the lifter swap solves the issue as it is the only thing I can see which could be problematic in the valve train. If this doesn't solve the problem, I will need to go deeper into the engine
     
  4. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    you can always get 8 rods for pass side. the pro magnum lifters are set with only 8 thousand preload when cold, so your shorter pushrods will fit better they might be quieter too. what oil and weight r u running.
     
  5. KDML

    KDML Well-Known Member

    Haven't been around to make any progress, but the new lifters showed up today. Original set of comp lifters on the left (#852), stock lifter in the middle and new lifter on the right (#869). Clearly new lifter looks closer to original. Hopefully, I will find some time to get things back together. Going to recheck pushrod length for a few valves to ensure I have correct length. Originally, I checked length at one valve and came out at 8.25" and am running a 8.3" pushrod

    Joe, I was running Royal Purple 10w30 break in oil for the initial break in. Currently, engine has 10w40 conventional oil with bottle of zddp added.


    photo7.jpg
     
  6. KDML

    KDML Well-Known Member

    Forgot to post this picture in my previous reply. Going back to Tom's comment about different pushrod cups, I compared the new lifters with the old lifters and noticed the pushrod cups are different, despite what comp cams told me. Comp lifter #852 is on the left, original lifter in the middle and new comp lifter #869 is on the right.

    Also, I re-measured for push rod length as I originally only measured at #1 piston and have noticed when installing rocker arms that there is no gap on the drivers side rockers when I open up the adjusters all the way. All measurements were taken per T/A instructions with adjusters one full turn from completely opened up and lifters on base circle of cam. Per instructions one full turn is approx. .050":

    #7 Exhaust 8.258"
    #7 Intake 8.255"
    #5 Exhaust 8.260"
    #5 Intake 8.275"
    #3 Intake 8.274"
    #3 Exhaust 8.260"
    #1 Intake 8.256"
    #1 Exhaust 8.251"

    #8 Exhaust 8.237"
    #8 Intake 8.239"
    #6 Exhaust 8.235"
    #6 Intake 8.239"
    #4 Intake 8.231"
    #4 Exhaust 8.236"
    #2 Intake 8.233"
    #2 Exhaust 8.234"

    I currently have an 8.3" pushrod, which is what T/A recommended with my original 8.25" measurement. My current pushrods will work on the passenger side as there is a small gap with the adjusters opened up all the way, if you add back the .050" to my measurements and subtract the current pushrod length. However, the pushrod is too long on the drivers side. Even if I open up the adjusters all the way, once I tighten down the rocker shafts, I am already pre-loading the lifters. I am assuming the difference from side to side is based on how much material was milled from the block and heads. As a sanity check, I installed the 8.3" pushrods and rocker shafts with all of the adjusters opened up all the way. Moving each pushrod, I can see that the lifters are already starting to preload in the drivers side and there is a very little gap on the passenger side. Even the #3 and #5 intake measurements on the passenger side felt right, as the gaps were substantial, compared to the rockers, for those 2 lifters.

    I am going to call T/A next week to discuss proper pushrod length based on these measurements. Anyone have a suggestion on lengths?

    Thanks


    photo8.jpg
     
  7. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    r u checking this now with the new 869 lifters. the one turn down is for the 455 roller rockers. on the nailhead rockers u want the adjuster all the way up. the pass side pushrods are fine, take play out then 3/4 turn down your done. but check it with the valve movement not by eye balling the base circle. drivers side 8.275 should work
     
  8. KDML

    KDML Well-Known Member

    Yes these are the new 869 rockers.

    Are you sure the one turn is for the 455. The instructions T/A sent say 401-425 Roller Rockers at the top.

    I will recheck using valve movement, before I finalize length

    Thanks
     
  9. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    Doug,am sure of it, thats what mike told me a while back when i got mine.the 455 rollers the adjuster cup goes up into the rocker arm where ours stop before that.did the measurement change from the 852 lifter and the 869 lifter
     
  10. KDML

    KDML Well-Known Member

    OK Thanks

    Originally, I only checked #1 with the 852's and the measurement did not appear to change at around 8.25"

    I am going to recheck measurements with the adjusters opened all the way up. I am also thinking of swapping the rocker shafts from side to side to see if the measurements change, just to be certain.
     
  11. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    both my motors were like that even after decking the block, different heads too, i think its the lifter bores itself.
     
  12. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    are u saying 8.25 with the adjustment starting out with one turn down or all the way up?
     
  13. KDML

    KDML Well-Known Member

    All measurements were one turn down
     
  14. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    to check drivers side preload after you tighten down rockers with pushrods into the lifters, measure the gap between your hold down clip on the lifter and the lifter body, with a paper clip or similar wire fitting it under the clip. I know its the hard way, but you can use your 8.3 rods maybe. say you have .015 preload then 1/2 turn on the adjuster and your there. .040-.045 is good.
     
  15. KDML

    KDML Well-Known Member

    Remeasured for pushrods again. I measured with the adjuster screws all the way out and with adjuster screw set at one turn. Spoke with Mike at TA and decided I would run the 8.3" pushrod on the passenger side. In a few instances I will be preloading the pushrod with no turns of the adjuster screw, but only slightly; not enough to order shorter pushrods for the passenger side.

    However, on the driver's side I am going to go with an 8.275" pushrod, as I am too far into preload with the 8.3" pushrod. I understand that I could have measured at the lifter with the 8.3" pushrod (Mike mentioned this as well), but I did not want to deal with pulling the intake anytime I needed to recheck preload (as it seems to be becoming a habit for me). Hopefully, running two different length pushrods won't have any negative effect on anything else.

    Mike mentioned he had never seen the measurements so different from side to side. Still not sure why the two sides are so far off. Joe mentioned lifter bores, but wouldn't the cam position in the block determine the distance as the lifters would just slide right through the bores if it wasn't for the cam stopping them.

    Once I get the new pushrods, I will put everything back together and hopefully my problem will be solved



    [TABLE="width: 311"]
    <tbody>[TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]No Turn[/TD]
    [TD]One Turn[/TD]
    [TD]8.300 PR[/TD]
    [TD]8.275 PR[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Passanger Side:[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#7 Exhaust[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.295[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.254[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-0.005[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.020[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#7 Intake[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.300[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.261[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.000[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.025[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#5 Exhaust[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.298[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.255[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-0.002[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.023[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#5 Intake[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.314[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.275[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.014[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.039[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#3 Intake[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.307[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.274[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.007[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.032[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#3 Exhaust[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.303[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.265[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.003[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.028[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#1 Intake[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.296[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.257[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-0.004[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.021[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#1 Exhaust[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.290[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.246[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-0.010[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.015[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Drivers Side:[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#8 Exhaust[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.276[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.234[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-0.024[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.001[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#8 Intake[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.281[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.238[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-0.019[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.006[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#6 Exhaust[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.285[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.243[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-0.015[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.010[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#6 Intake[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.278[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.240[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-0.022[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.003[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#4 Intake[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.275[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.236[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-0.025[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.000[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#4 Exhaust[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.280[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.238[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-0.020[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.005[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#2 Intake[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.276[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.237[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-0.024[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.001[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]#2 Exhaust[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.275[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.232[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-0.025[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]0.000[/TD]
    [/TR]
    </tbody>[/TABLE]
     
  16. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    your right cant be the lifter bores, what could do that if the block was decked and different heads, thinking about it, I did 3 blocks all were off . could the cam bores be off left to right ? Tom, Walt or doc might know why. you will get some ticking noise with the fast ramp cams sounds like solid lifters
     
  17. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Possibly the machine shop that did the valve job has the valves "sunk in" farther on one head than the other head that makes the valves sit up higher on one side?

    Derek
     
  18. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    yea butt to sets of heads and always on the same side
     
  19. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    That is weird,possibly the cam bore not inline with the crank bore,off to one side? Even though the both sides of the deck is the same from the crank bore,may be different from the cam bore. This would mean that the bottom of the block wasn't machined correctly from the factory so the cam and crank bores are inline and 90* to the bottom of the block. When your machine shop bored and decked the block they didn't correct(or check for) this when the block was machined leaving the cam housing bore off to one side of the block bore.(maybe?)

    Thats all I can think of why this phenomenon is happening. If this is the case,you can have it corrected,BUT that means having the deck machined again and changing the angle slightly and machining off more on one side to center the cam housing bore over the crank housing bore with a BHJ jig.GL



    Derek
     
  20. gsgtx

    gsgtx Silver Level contributor

    I don't really know I was just throwing it out there. I know one block was off 15 thousands. after decking I thought that would fix it but it didn't.
     

Share This Page