Of coarse it wouldn't hurt to just use the 2 different size push rods for each side to correct the problem. Derek
Installed the new lifters (#869) and pushrods. Using the 8.3" pushrods on the passenger side and 8.275" pushrods on the drivers side. Set preload at 3/4 turn, after tacking up any slack. I was able to easily get a .035" feeler gauge in between the pushrod cup and retainer clip at 3/4 turn. Noise is still there. Here are a couple of new videos: http://vid1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/kdml1/Mobile Uploads/IMG_1146_zps2c8589e4.mp4 http://vid1175.photobucket.com/albums/r639/kdml1/Mobile Uploads/IMG_1146_zps2c8589e4.mp4 I am getting the feeling that my valve train setup is just noisy and what I am hearing is the valves closing on the seats. When I put my stethoscope on the exhaust manifolds right where they meet the head, you can hear a noise that coincides with what I am hearing. Also, can hear it when I put the stethoscope on the intake runners where they meet the heads as well. Not as pronounced as the exhaust side, but noticeable. As Joe mentioned earlier in the thread I am running a fast ramp cam from Comp Cams. If I am understanding this correctly the ramp rate is calculated by the difference between the duration at .006 and .050. My cam calculates 44 for the intake and 50 for the exhaust. Looking at the Comp Cams lobe style listings my intake lobe is #5085 and is comparable to the XFI series cams and my exhaust is #5216 and is comparable to the XE series. I have done a little browsing on line and found a number of people complaining that these cams are noisy. Maybe I just need to switch cams or learns to live with all the noise?
Hi Doug, Try driving the car yet? I think we are running the same cam. Mine makes a little noise. Sure runs good with that cam. Burns rubber threw 1st ,2nd and third with the automatic. :3gears:
button every thing up close the hood and sit in the car, can you still here the noise? wonder if the stock valve covers make it sound louder then the aluminum covers. seems louder then mine was. like Bob said try driving it.
Shutting the hood might be kinda tough in its current state. And driving it might be just as difficult. Joe, you think this is louder than when you ran the same cam with these heads? I was hoping you were going to tell me you had a similar noise. Isn't Bob running your old engine in his car now? So, that would mean the same cam, unless he swapped it. Any videos of your engines running for me to compare to? Also, Bob what are you running for valve springs? Maybe mine are too stiff? They are shimmed to increase pressure - maybe I should pull the shims and see what happens?
am running a solid lifters now. that is the same cam Bob is running and so is Greg (66gs), remember Mike Philips built and Greg showed his dyno numbers. you don't want to pull the shims if anything more is better to keep the lifters on the camshaft and valves from floating. mine was noisy but not bad with those heads and my new heads too I run for a while with that cam.it does sound louder then mine, like I said maybe the steel valve covers are louder. are rockers hitting the covers?
I am running ls1 beehive springs from pac. about125/295 pounds of preasure. 11/32 valves cut to 1.90 and 1.50... I am running joes old short block with that cam. My heads and intake. It is a little noisey but when I close the hood you cant tell. I wouldn't give up on the cam , great street cam. I have a video of the car running with that cam. Look for the thread " kinda slow in the nailhead section lately" Sorry but its not of a idle
Joe, I was not intending to leave the shims out, only to remove and see if the noise lessens. Just looking for some proof that what I am really hearing is the valves on the seats. Would hate to finish the rest of the car and find I need to pull the motor. I am also holding off on final engine parts (carb, headers, exhaust) until I know the rest is good. I can learn to live with some noise, as long as I know it is by design and not a sign of something going bad I don't believe the rockers are hitting the valve covers. It's the same noise I heard when I ran without the covers. I also, don't hear anything hitting the covers when I use the stethoscope on them. I can hear the noise best with the stethoscope when I put it on the exhaust manifolds, so it feels like I am hearing the valves close. Guess, I could try to insulate the steel valve covers with something to see if the noise is made greater by the covers. At some point I was going to replace the covers with something fancier. Joe, what covers did you run? I hear the stock finned covers won't clear the rockers. Bob, I believe my springs are 120/280 with the shims, so yours are slightly stiffer. I've seen your videos before - makes me even more anxious to finish my car. If you could get a video of your engine running at idle, that would be helpful.
you have to grind the bolt holes down a little and pull the valve covers towards the exhaust manifolds. am pretty sure the valves will bounce off the seats when the valve springs have too little seat pressure. maybe the lifters are bleeding down but you have had two sets of lifters so far. i just do not know whats going on, maybe someone will have more things to look for.my springs now are 130-315, Bobs are like mine gregs are close too them
Joe, sounds like you ran stock finned aluminum covers modified so you can slide them away from the rockers. Thanks to you and everyone else for all the advice. I am going to keep poking at this until I am sure I know what the problem is or that there is no problem. Doug
Most ALL of the fast ramp rise cams have lifter noise. The problem is the ball & spring in the bottom of the lifter. The ball is heavy & the spring is not strong enough. That's one reason they came up with the Pro Comp lifters. They have a ceramic ball/disc & a stronger spring. What happens is the rise is so fast that the lifter actually gets the oil pushed out/collapsing. I don't know if the parts are available separately or not to replace what you have in your lifters. Although the stock "Nails" had a very fast ramp rise maybe that's one of the reasons the lifters are FLAT on the bottom. Because of the fast ramp rise the "Nails" were one of the only engines you could swap the hydraulics for solids & gain 15-20HP. ALL the lifters supplied today are NOT FLAT. This is what I know. Tom T.
Yes, but he mentioned additional shims under the springs. That would bring them that much closer to .......... Cheryl
Instead of a stethoscope, did you try a long wooden dowel or long screwdriver? Put one end on top of your ear flap (flap that covers the ear canal), and the other end on the engine in various places. This will allow you to 'feel' where the sound is coming from. Might give you different results. If you could borrow a stock rocker setup for testing, it should ramp the valves closed more gently. Might be a test for 'valves closing too fast'. But stock rockers wouldn't change the lifter crash issue Tom mentioned..... the lifter would still see the same fast ramp irregardless of which rockers you use. The valves however, would see slower ramp speeds due to less rocker ratio.
So, I am going to take Walt's advice and see if things change with the stock rockers. It's going to take quite a bit of cleaning before I would put the stock rockers and pushrods on the engine, as they all look like they came out of an engine that never had an oil change. I am also thinking that I would play with the pre-load a little and see if anything changes. Maybe 1/4 turn more or a 1/4 turn less and see if things quiet down some. I am also going to check with the engine warm. All my adjusting thus far has been on a cold engine I understand I should expect some noise, but this still seems extreme On the subject of lifter crash/bleed down, is there any way to check for this? I don't mind trying another set of lifters, as Tom suggested, but would like to runs some tests first before throwing another $100 at the problem. Also, Tom mentioned Pro Comp lifters - just to verify, did you mean Comp Cams Pro Magnum lifters (http://www.compperformancegroupstor...PROD&Product_Code=865-16&Category_Code=PMHFTL) or is there another company called Pro Comp. The only Pro Comp I know of makes tires. Thanks Doug
I have same problem on my 350, only mine is dead quiet on startup then gets noisy after it warms up. Oil press is over 60 at start up and 20 at 190*, 50 @3000 rpm. I run the Comp 865's (pro magnums) with a fast ramp Lunati cam and roller rockers. This did make it quieter than the lifters that came with the cam. I don't like the noise either but has been doing this now for over 15 years so I guess I just call it a noisy valve train. If I am going to hear the noise I might as well put in a solid lifter cam. I am sure it is time for a change now since it does sound somewhat louder than it used to, Plus I have noticed the oil pressure gauge is kind of jumpy, bounces 1-2 lbs but this may be the front cam bearing but not sure. Maybe you should have bought a roller cam instead, I think this will be my route next time.
stock are still a 1.6 ratio, would the valves hitting the seat make that much noise? why not just put solid lifters in it and be done with it, your pushrods might be short enough since the solids are 1.88 seat height. Tom would know where to set the lash because he has done this before, I think its a real tight lash on a hyd cam. cant really hear the solids at all.
With Tom's rollers I was getting a 1.9 ratio at max lift. My stock rockers were a bit over 1.6 The rollers increased the max lift of the stock cam from 0.448" to 0.514" on the intake, an from 0.425" to 0.498" on the exhaust. With the Posten NH400cam I used, valve lift was around 0.550" with the rollers. Has anyone else here measured valve lift with stock vs roller rockers? We could use more data to reach a consensus. Trying the stock rockers would: -increase coil bind clearance. The Nailhead springs Schneider sells will bind at 0.570" lift. Don't recall what you are using. -increase valve-retainer-to-guide clearance. -reduce the pressure on the lifter from the valve springs (rough calc is about 16%, which may not be significant) -I don't think it will close the valves more gently by a significant amount unless there is too much lash in the lifter....due to the collapsed lifter issue Tom suggested. Trying the stock rockers is just a suggestion. Might fix the noise if it's due to one of the items I mentioned above. If this doesn't work, a different cam could be a final solution. Hope you get this fixed, good luck!
