Need some advice for rebuilding 77 350 please

I will go back here and start with how this discussion started:

This was my answer:

I have never installed cam bearings with the short block together however people have done it with the engine in the car and short block together so it is possible and I am sure easier with the engine out.


And then when you said it was un-acceptable to change 4 of the 5 bearings I said:

With the engine out the rear bearing can be done as well and it is not half assed... It is up to him if he wants to take the bottom end apart or work a bit to get them installed.

Being that the engine is out there is no point in arguing about if the rear bearing can be installed with the bottom end together If the engine was in the car then it would be a deal breaker if he was un-able to get it in however with the engine out he just needs to take the crank out if he has trouble getting the rear one in

I would hazard to guess that the only reason the rear bearing cannot be installed while engine is in the car is that you would not be able to remove and re-install the plug behind the cam bearing at the rear And if the engine is out then this is not an issue I could be wrong and maybe it is a poor assumption, but with the engine out it is of little consequence as he can just remove the crank if he has an issue, or if he feels it is going to be easier.

I never have bothered to buy the tool and never will... I have the machine shop install the cam bearings when they do the machine work to the block. Personally I would not bother trying to do the cam bearings without having a bare block to work with... I was just pointing out that others have done the bearings with the engine in the car...

 

If you want to ignore my posts then go for it, its your right! Why you are so bothered by me collecting info is beyond me... Others tend to find the info I share useful. I started the mission of collecting info for myself, and when people enjoyed or benefited from the info then I started to compile info for a book to share and help others learn about what others and myslef have done with the 350.


You are pretty new around here so let me fill you in on what happened in the past 10 years:


I came on here because I enjoy street driving my Buick 350 powered cars and I had lots of questions and things to learn from people with more experience than myself... I am still learning every single day, thats what life is about.


Faulting me for collecting data and sharing it is a little judgmental, but that is your right so thats cool.


I never was into drag racing, and I am still not. I drive street cars, and will test my Skylark at the track for fun but that is not the point or objective of my Buick hobby. So if I quote quarter mile times it is only to help people get an idea of the potential of a certain combo.


Back about 6 years ago a guy named Mark Burton asked on here if anyone was interested in purchasing a turbocharger kit from him and I was the only one who was interested enough to get in on the opportunity. Once my kit was completed he ended up selling it to someone else with my permission and then partially funded by my personal financial investment in him he produced many turbo kits and sold them to people all over the world. One of the kits ended up in a major magazine article, another was proven by Jay to work well and make tons of power on a street/strip car as well as performs reliably over the years.

Some of the projects that mark and I completed were the chevy roller rocker conversion, single plane intakes which he sold a bunch of And I also paid for the dyno testing of one of the early single plane intakes on the famous 550 HP 350.

You also probably did not know that Bobb Mackley called me up one day and offered to help with my 350 projects and I ended up convincing him to have his son build a boosted 350. I bought a Buick 350 and had it delivered to his shop as they were not going to do a 350 due to having a bunch of 455s already That 350 opened up Bobbs eyes as well as a lot of other people about the fact that a mild 350 with 5 PSI of boost can make a reliable 630 HP in street car form

Most likely you did not know that I bought a Lunati cam and donated a set of spare headers to Nick A. who ran 12s on a stock low comp. 350 with the exception of the cam we picked out For a guy with nothing data I seem to be involved with some pretty cool projects.

Just because I may not have as much experience as you do does not discount my contribution and dedication to this community! If I have a fault then it is my passion for helping people and the fact that I may get excited and type before I think something through, but we all have our faults And this board is all about helping each other out If you make a mistake then we can correct you, if I make a mistake you can correct me No need to get all upset and attack me.

 

I guess SMAR stands for almost SMART? LOL Well I guess you should write a book about Buick engines then since you are clearly a lot more qualified than myself! :TU:

 

Hey Sean could you send me a parts list of items needed for the Burton turbo? I'm thinking of doing something with my 350... Btw id take seans advice. Why spend 200 buck x for a toll when the machine shop can do it as part of the build.

 

Sean, your arrogance is becoming less and less amusing every day, and now you are making fun of someone's screen name cause you have nothing else? How childish is that?

 

Alright alright. It's enough. I respect everyone's own opinion. Lets get back on topic here. I will figure out if the crank has to come out or not. If it does I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and do that. And whatever I decide to do with raising the compression ratio will be based off of what I tear apart. Ill keep everyone posted with what I do and costs so we can document this small build.

Here's something's though... Why are the cam bearings wacked in the first place. 64,000 miles and I couldn't pull the cam out? I will get pictures of the difference between the bare journels this weekend.

What could have caused this camshaft to be so warped?

 

I sounds like you have everything you need. ... my suggestions are that you have the block decked. don't mill the heads other than to make sure they are square....you will need adjustable pushrods. don't buy new pistons or bore the block unless it is absolutely necessary. get the arp kit for the rod bolts. get the larger 5/8 oil pick and melling oil pump rebuild and shim kit. degree the cam. make sure you have a good carb and the ignition system is working correctly and you should be good to go.

---------- Post added at 01:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 PM ----------

did you turn the crank while removing the cam?

 

I like the idea of cutting the block down. Could I cut off .040 off the block? Or .060?

This would not require adjustable pushrods correct since the piston will just reach higher into the combustion chamber in the head?

Yes I did move the crank so I could get the cam out.

Thanks!

 

cutting the block down to zero the deck will be determined by the machine shop as not all the blocks had the same inital deck height. also if the machine shop tells you that they need to cut either the intake side of the head or the intake to match the runners up have then cut the intake side of the head. at .060... you may have to have the intake side of the head cut. You will have to have adjustable pushrods.

 

Just to clarify, I was saying that you must get adjustable pushrods. I worded it as "No" in response to his question, so I could see that being taken wrong.

 

You will need SHORTER push rods. I have never had a shorter push rod come loose or add valve train weight.
Order the correct length in chrom-moly from Smith bros. or elsewhere. Adjustables are crap. I know about 5 of you will say they are fine, but I would not use them.

 

I'm with ya Steve on the pushrod thing. Just get one adjustable and take some measurements then order the proper lengths you'll need (one piece).

 

So a little update to bring this thread back to life....

I just purchased a set of early 350 heads. I think one is a 68 head and one is a 70.

From this thread.....

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?276106-350-heads-rebuilt


I also am buying a set of Hooker Long Tube headers from a board member for a very reasonable price.

He is also selling me a new timing chain, oil pump with booster plate, and water pump.


So the 77 heads and exhaust manifolds are coming off.

The early heads are going to go on. I do not believe the coolant passages in these heads have been plugged so I have to use the .040 gasket correct?

I will look into having these heads shaved down if my budget allows for it.


Also another board member is going to help me install the cam bearings. I am going to put the engine on the stand, leave the pistons in the bores and disconnect all the connecting rods. Is it OK to re-use the stock connecting rod bolts? I'm not a big fan of reusing hardware. Or is it crucial to get the ARP bolts. This engine is not going to ever see more than 5000 RPM, and is only going to be street driven.


So what do you guys think...

77 block
Early set of heads
Long tube Hooker Headers
TA 212 camshaft
4 bbl intake
Stock 77 pistons and rods

How about the head bolts as well?

Thanks.:beer

 

Sounds good. Personally, I'd forget the headers and use the stock exhaust manifolds. I'd also think that stock rod bolts would be fine for your street application. I've used stock 400 sbc rods and bolts in a hot street car that I abused, held fine in a heavy 14 second flat street car.

 

68 to 70 heads do not have coolant "scollops" that need to be plugged. You could use shim head gaskets if you like. But those head don't really do much as a bolt on. Port them with big valves or you'renot gaining much at all.

---------- Post added at 11:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 AM ----------

I have a set of 70 pistons hi comp on rods.on me if interested.use your rods or the rods on the 70 pistons. Got fresh crank and bearings too.

 

You might try installing the cam bearings from the top with the bottom end left together. Sure re use the rod bold if u are not doing a full rebuild. The early heads will work fine on the 77 block no mods needed.

 

I suggest getting the bottom end done With hi comp piston.get a good timing set.don't use stock style.it retards most aftermarket cams. Use the 77 heads. Then when you can afford it shave and port the other heads with valve job.

 

As of right now I am not looking into replacing the pistons, otherwise I would have the deck zeroed and go with hi-compression pistons. My budget is not going to allow me to have all this machine work done. I'm trying to avoid bringing the block to a machine shop and doing an at home build without modifying the bottom end, but using some performance parts to get a little gain in horsepower.

Part of my reasoning to go with the earlier heads as well is that later down the road I will already have these on the engine and can have them ported then. However, It was stated on here that they flow much better than the earlier ones even unported. I think there is another thread about that.

Does anyone know what the going rate of having the heads milled about .030 is at a machine shop?

 

Early heads don't flow that much better and 77 heads have bigger exhaust valves.some peoples race class doesn't allow for porting and still make big power with these heads. Either way I wouldn't toss 77 heads just yet. I would bump compression up even without zero deck. But just what I would do..