Right, so we have gone from a german car manufacturer to a german fridge manufacturer, well I have a German fridge made by Bosch and it uses R600 refrigerant (HC) and very good it is too. But no way could I mistake my fridge for my BMW (unless I was very, very drunk) If you look at the sealed refrigerant circuit of a fridge, and then look at the paper doyley of a circuit that is on a car you may spot that although the basic principal is the same, the execution is totally different, one is designed for HCs one is not. The German government is driven by environmental issues, this is why they have invested huge sums of money in the design if CO2 systems, they have recognised that R134a was less damaging than R12, and CO2 is best of all, HCs were seen as an accident looking for somewhere to happen. By nature the motor industry is a very cautious animal, and goes out of its way to ensure that there are as few reasons for someone to sue them as possible, so chemistry aside, and economics in why would they select a corrosive lethal refrigerant to cause their components to fail when they can and do use dissimilar metals to cause their parts to corrode from the outside in. Im not sure where people would save money by using your stuff, any refrigerant in the system must be recovered, so we still need a recovery machine, the system must be charged into a vacuum, so we still need a vac pump, and ofcourse we need a set of gauges, so where are we saving?. I am also concerned about the release if HCs to the atmosphere. Normal refrigerants MUST be recovered, the potential fine in the UK is 50000 and recovery is good, you suggest that your stuff can be legally vented to atmosphere, fine so it is legal, but what about the ethics of this? whatever you release to the air we all have to breathe, and what are the safety guidelines for venting, must it be done outside?, must here be an intrinsicaly safe zone to ensure that the refrigerant will disperse before it reaches a dangerous concentration? If it is vented in a workshop what happens to the poor SOB who is working in the pit, who is just about to spark up a cigarette? No thought has been given to these issues at all, has it? I prefer to keep this debate in the public so that this debate is transparrent (For as long as the kind hosts will permit us) If folk decide that my comments are not valid, then fair comment, they have been presented with my views and they can decide having had them. Karl Hofmann Crewe (Home of the fastest production 4 seater in the world) Cheshire United Kingdom
May I just say that this whole thread has become a cluster F*^K!! I just wanted to check out charging an a/c system and after this I think I'll just roll down the windows. I'd rather suffer through a summer of hot weather than one more post of this. Can't you just agree to disagree. I suggest that if someone wants to give all this info, instead of throwing it up here and just say I have some additional info if you care to e-mail. It gets tough to just get a few simple answers when you guys debate a no win situation. I think you should all apologize to the poor people who have to endure this ENDLESS contest. You all seem to have some knowledge on this issue, now I wish you'd show the knowledge of when to just drop a subject and move on. This is tasteless and makes all of you look less credible. I'm sure that is not your intention! You have all made your point!!! Sometimes the guy who says the least says the most!! Please, I hope to exchange postings with all of you in the future on many different subjects. Call it a draw and lets get back to BUICKS!!
If you ever have the opportunity to visit any of the Air-conditioning help boards, you will see that this argument never ends. In fact during the summer months it gets worse.. Professional Ac techs that take the time to help the DIYer are not out to harm you or your AC system, but we do this work for a living, and love helping people fix their own cars. I have a great respect for the shadetree mechanic. Not because they know anything better, but because they love their cars, and love working on them. To these people its a labor of love. How can you not respect that. But they do run into problems now and then, and ask for professional help, as the original post shows. I thought I answered the question, and it was a simple one. The drier is toast, change it, flush the system, use a quality ester oil like BVA Auto 100, ad I would use 11 ounces in the stone crusher compressor (I love the A6..) Change the expansion valve again if the dissicant made it thru to it., vac/recharge the system to 85% of the R12 charge and work your way up following the vac/charge procedures I posted the link to. A simple job. Then as always, the HC guys will tell you the horror of using an accepted refrigerant like R134a that you can get serviced anywhere in the USA and use their refrigerant that as one post says, you can let out before you go to a shop to have it serviced with R134a. What they dont tell you is very important. No compressor company, new or reman will warrant your compressor or for that matter any part you use if anything but R134a or R12 is used.??? You love your car, you should, and you should protect your warranties. In most cases Ac work is not hard. Certainly not rocket sience. But there are laws and rules that must be followed by Ac techs, and the fact that HCs ARE banned in 18 US states should tell you something. Now it is your car, and you can use anything in it that you want. But sadly, we can only help you with what we know. There are to many refrigerants out there that Claim to be the best..But there are really only two. R12 and R134a. The rest is just people making a brew getting a patent then lying about facts to get you to buy the stock pile they have in their garages..I do agree with Karl that this should be kept open for debate so people can see the lies and propaganda these people spew. If using a refrigerant that cannot be serviced on the road is your thing, by all means use it. It will not perform better, or last longer or do any of the magical things the makers claim. R134a has been proven to work just fine in your system, and you can buy gauges and vacuum pump and service it yourself. I urge you to learn as much about auto ac as you can, as the labor of love can lead you to fixing your family and friends cars. Visit Ackits.com and click on the information link and read the FAQ page. Lots of info there on POA systems by the Late Mitch, a advanced DIYer that can explain things about POA systems that even I cant.. I stand by my saying..do it right and youll do it once..Dont buy magic in a can, there is no such animal..And NEVER use one of those death kits in your car..Better off just opening the hood and shooting it... Good luck to you, and feel free to visit Ackits.com and even Aircondition.com message board for professional answers to your questions.. We are Ac professionals that do it for a living and love to help people with thier cars. It gives us satisfaction to give back to the communities that have helped us make a living at what we do...
I will be the first to do that............heck, I was only trying to help. ou: BTW, who said anything about German refrigerators? I have some German beer in mine...........after this I could use one!:beer :grin:
I think it's worth the money to buy the R-12 at this point. By the way, does anybody still have one of the old fitments for the R-12 cans? I still have a few cans that I hoarded at the then outrageous price of $4 a can. I also know a guy that used to pop a can of R-12 and put it into a garbage bag. He'd inhale the stuff and when he talked would sound like Freedy Krueger. (Opposite of Helium) After he passed out and fell on the floor wone time he quit doing it. Not the brightest guy on the planet!!
Adam, Try this, or even NAPA. http://store.ackits.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AMA&Product_Code=85530
I'm sorry if we have been persistant in our persuit, but these things are important to us, and will be to you when your ac turns up its toes Chick has summed it all up in a nutshell, the decision is yours
