This is my first attempt at working on an a/c system and I'm having a problem... I have ice cold pipes but no cold air. First off I did some boo boos by not replacing the condenser. The system was apart for awhile and it wasn't until after I started dumping 134 into the system I checked v8 for some tips. So far I dumped in three 14 oz cans last night by what the instructions said to do. Went out this morning and started the car up and turned on the a/c. No cold air but the expansion valve got all frosty and the line going to the condenser was ice cold. After a couple minutes the expansion valve defrosted but I am still not getting any cold air. Outside temp was about 60 and my them-o-meter at the vent was showing 85. I bought the 134 kit at walmart which it came with a gauge and when I have the gauge connected, it is showing around 25 psi with the engine and ac running. I am I just low on 134 or do I have other problems?
You need to verify the "diverter" door in heater box in pass. side compartment is working. If you look to the right of your gas pedal there is a small vacuum motor to open a door to allow air to flow to the ac vents in the dash. Make sure you have the vacuum line from the canister on firewall connected. 1. Large line runs from carb base to canister. 2. Small line runs from canister to vacuum controls on AC controller. 3. Make sure vacuum is going to diverter door vacuum motor. 4. You should also hear the blower motor running. If not, the POA valve will freeze and let the system go into bypass mode. 5. Make sure you have your AC controller working by checking vacuum, blower speeds and electrical connections.
Looks like a bigger boo-boo by not changing the receiver-drier. That always gets changed, every time you work on the system. Its the part in the middle picture. The valve in the top and bottom pics is the POA valve, its on the outlet side of the evaporator. I don't see the expansion valve in your pictures, its on the inlet side of the evaporator. It is normal for the POA to get frosty. Your gauge should read whatever pressure the POA is set to, this is in the factory manual. It's 28.5 psi for 1970 Buicks. The POA is a pressure regulator, by setting the pressure of the freon leaving the evaporator, is also controls the temperature of the evaporator. Seems like 28.5 psi corresponds to mid-upper 30s temps. The frosty line in the middle pic should be warm, it is carrying warm liquid from the condensor, thru the drier, back to the expansion valve at the evaporator. Frost there indicates you're spraying liquid through a restriction, probably water ice because the dessicant is expended and the system is otherwise full of moisture. Did you get a vacuum pump and pull a deep vacuum for a long time before charging? Also, did you flush the system? What kind of oil is included with your Wal-Mart "Death Kit"? If the answers are not "Yes", "Yes", and "POE" you're screwed.
Thanks George and John. I have learned that I need to check the board first before I go and jump into unknown projects. Question is, would it be cheaper in the end to have a pro do the A/C work? For a pro to flush, replace the dryer and refill the system, would I be in the ballpark of spending $250 to have this done?
Dude, you need Duracool. Don't waste your time with 134 and all the aftermarket nonsense that will only waste your money and aggravate you. Get a new drier, get that 134 crappola out of there, and either order some Duracool hc-12a from me or my supplier.........I made a post in another thread about this. I used it in mine and it blows 42 degrees at the center outlet..........your 134 will never do that without extensive modifications. It will mix with any oil and blows marginally cooler than the original r-12. Send me a PM, I can ship one case of this stuff to you for $75 shipping included......or order one from Fox Tool.......enough for 3 fills. You can even use your original size fittings if you prefer. (it's perfectly legal to do this as long as you are not licensed) Go to www.hcrefrigerant.com to check it out. I really prefer not to get into any debates over what is better here, just trust me it works. I would not use it in mine if I wasn't convinced this stuff is the best. :bglasses:
Your drier is plugged and the system is low on charge. Your system is designed to work with R12. Lots of info on this site www.ackits.com Please take the time to look at this. http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc12alng.html If you do not use R12 use R134, It cost less than replacements. HTH John
Oh, and please do not use anything with sealants "stop leak" It can "seal" AC machines. Also if you get a leak it can seal your system causing unnesesary replacement of "plugged" parts. John
I did not want to get into a debate here, but as usual, I just can't keep my mouth shut. I will not just stand by when someone tries to bash a good product that I believe in. This is a drop in replacement for R-12 that WORKS. Do you really think I would say that I will sell you some if I thought it was illegal? The link to that site you provided is just Gov't propaganda. The fact is Dupont has the patent on 134, they had it on r-12 until it expired. The whole thing is money driven, with the support of the EPA. The fact is that Duracool HC-12a is NOT illegal, they try to tell you it is. When they got technicians to sign up for a license, the catch is that it makes it illegal for THEM to play with that stuff, but NOT un-licensed do it yourselfers. Any shop owner or technician will argue for 134, b/c it is all they can legally use. It is also more profitable, when you consider all the aftermarket O rings, conversion kits, flushing solvents, special oils, 134 compatible driers, etc. It's a money thing, less profit for them than if they use Duracool HC-12a which they are not allowed to. Here's some real facts: R-134 is EXPLOSIVE and has killed many people who have been incinerated in car crashes. The EPA is covering all the facts up, b/c if they ever admit it, all the cars built after 1994 would have to be recalled and that stuff taken out and replaced.............IT WOULD BANKRUPT THE AUTO INDUSTRY! Here's another fact: The gov't did tests on human subjects with 134, and after 1 of them died when his heart exploded, the tests were halted and the experiment swept under the rug. THAT STUFF IS TOXIC! READ THE MSDS, that is if you can get a real one.........Ford Motor Company has the one that has not been softened up a little. Ask Charlie from Fox Tool, he will tell you of how he lost a close friend who got blasted in the face with that 134 crap and died.......his heart also failed. As for HC-12 being explosive, is is only flammable, it will briefly flash at a low temperature.........134 EXPLODES AND BURNS HOT ENOUGH TO LEAVE A CRATER IN THE PAVEMENT FROM THE CAR FIRES IT EXPLODES IN. I don't have the time this time of year to argue here, but as soon as the website is up telling the truth about r-134 I will post the link here.............along with a copy of some newspaper articles about car fires. Before you dump 134 into a car that was not designed to take the higher pressures associated with it, look into the organic alternative that is much cheaper in the long run and more efficient. READ THE MSDS and call Charlie Fox at Fox Tool (615) 865-6251 with your questions. I do not wish to get into a pi$$ing match here, that's usually what happens when I try to tell the truth about these things. Do you really think the US government is looking out for our safety? Do you know how big a corporation Dupont really is?Money talks, BS walks.:bglasses:
Not bashing, just passing on some info. I am a shop owner and certified auto tech. If you put this stuff in you car and bring it to my shop I will not work on it. I would add r12 to your car. No changes will be made. You will pay more for r12. You will not pay for any conversion parts or labor etc. It will have in it, what it was designed to use. If you have a problem, any shop with r12 equipment will be able to repair it. Use the info you are given to make your own decisions. It's your car. I own a shop and get paid to fix cars. I HAVE to play by the rules. Taken my BS for a walk, John *If you use r134 it also can be serviced at any shop with r134 equipment. Retrofitting to r134 is a BIG job if done right. *added with edit
John, you are an honorable person. If your shop was closeby, I would take my cars to you for the things I am not set up to do. Of all the times I have posted about Duracool, finally someone has agreed with me that R-12 belongs in there...........something I have been saying all along. Trust me, if I had any R-12 left it would be in mine, but I am not willing to pay $40 a lb. (last I heard) for it..........here in New York State R-12 can only be purchased by the 30 lb. tank...........I could buy another restorable car for that price! I also no longer do service work on cars for a living, so laying out $4,000 for recycling equipment is out of the question. Another "big brother" issue I prefer not to address. As long as an a/c system is mechanically sound and only needs recharging, it is not that difficult to do for the novice. IMHO, if you can change oil, you can change refrigerant.........just follow the directions. :bglasses:
I appericate the info guys... I guess anyway you look at this stuff, it is all hazardous in one way or another. Joe more than likely I will be getting some duracool to try out. I will send you a pm regarding it... The question is, since I have this 134 stuff in the lines, What is the best way to remove it to put duracool in? Should I just open the lines and run or should I seek a pro? After I get the stuff out, and since I don't have any leaks, I assuming it would be ok to just flush, vacuum, replace the dryer and refill right? Anything else I should do before I give this another try? Sorry for all the questions but I hate throwing money out the window...
You should read as much as possible before adding the suggested product to your vehicle. EPA has the information which is not just a bunch of bull but the law. http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/buying.html http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html I'm not hear to bash anyone but some of those statements are just incredible! The worse one is that an HC is a direct replacement for R12. That's plan illegal in the US! Anyway I hope you spend the time checking on this before adding this to your vehicle. There is a fellow I know that has used HC in the past. He will supply you with the straight scoop on HC's. I would be glad to provide you with his email address or just post a message on our site asking for GlennT.
Tim, it is NOT illegal..........that is what the EPA wants us to think. In Florida and Arizona, blends are illegal.........r-134 is a blend but they don't enforce that law.........as long as you are not licensed it is perfectly legal to use this product (Duracool HC-12a). It is also a direct replacement but should not be mixed with r-12 or any other refrigerant, it is illegal for a shop to remove contaminated refrigerant. Also, I appreciate your desire not to bash this product. Look at the label from a Dupont R-134 Suva can, notice that it says "may cause death without warning" and "no limits of flammability at 212 deg. F".
I had hoped that photo would have showed up better, but I tried scanning and that didn't work......sorry.
Using an HC refrigerant as a direct replacement for R12 is illegal! What is the legal status of hydrocarbon refrigerants such as HC-12a and DURACOOL? It has been illegal since July 13, 1995 to replace CFC-12 with the HC-12a formulation that was submitted for SNAP review in any refrigeration or A/C application other than industrial process refrigeration. The same prohibition for OZ-12 took effect on April 18, 1994. Because DURACOOL 12a has the same chemical composition as the HC-12a formulation that was submitted for SNAP review (i.e., Hydrocarbon Blend B), DURACOOL 12a is also subject to the same restrictions. Again I suggest that the readers of this site to do the research before using this type of product!
