Wow.. I had no idea this topic would be this controversial. I figured someone would just say "do a search, it's been covered".
I agree! Runs bad if too cool. I think a 190-195 degree Tstat would be best (if everything else is good).
do you see the huge contradiction here? I highly doubt the oil contaminates are preventing engine failure. a well tuned car would not detonate at 180 or 200 degrees. 20 degrees of temperature shouldn't make or break the engine.
I' like to point out that a 160 deg therm wont be fully open till about 175 deg and my 350s run perfect at 175-185 deg with a good 4 core rad. I swear by 160 deg with 4 core and 175 deg with stock rad.
LS series engines are a whole different ball game. With a 160 in them, they run in the 175 range as a low point. Don't forget about the reverse flow cooling either.
I have a 160 in the Riv and 160 in F100 which is 351 Clevo. Except for high ambient temps,they both run at around 82/83 on aftermarket gauges.Simple conversion =83 degrees Celsius = 181.4 degrees Fahrenheit. The local Ford dealership even stocks them. A lot of newer F150 owners drop them in. Tony.:Comp:
The way I see it is: 1. Detonation will cause more damage the anything. you want to run a 160 degree at the most, In the summer, if your car has problems with this!! 2. The temperature gauges you are all reading our all incorrect!! I have tested them all from auto meter on down and they always test wrong!! 3. Temperature gauge senders are in your intake manifold right by the water OUTLET!The engine is hottest by the Heads!! So you are getting the outlet temperature numbers but the temp by the heads is much hotter!! Which is where your detonation is, if you have detonation problems on the street!! 4. Buy a radar heat gun and test your engine in different places and you will see the truth about this!! 5. Any and all engines run faster, and make more power at 100-150 water temperature!! Every pro-stock engine is run as cool as possible with warm oil temperature of course, to produce the most power!! Warren Johnson wrote this in a National Dragster article years ago!! 6. I have always been able to run faster with my car, and anyone else's, that asks me to get there best ET, by simply running it as cool as possible!! With warm oil and the carb jetted right!! 7. 180 degree temperature is the most any car needs in the winter to make good heat!! The engine will not care, nor will it wear out any faster with a 160 degree thermostat!! The driver may freeze thou on cold days!! The oil today has plenty of additives and will never fail or sludge at any engine temperature!! Thanks
isn't the upper hose the water outlet? and as far as pro stock, as far as I knew they don't run cooling systems.
There are several reasons to run it hot. I remember traveling across the country a few times about 30 years ago. We would put cans of soup and chili on the manifold and cook while we drove! 160 would seem too cold for consumption!
The other reason guys think hotter is better is because the oil runs thinner, which would seem to reduce friction. That only matters if you run 20W. My engine makes the most power when it is just barely warmed up, no questions about it. As far as pinging goes, if an engine is tuned right to its max potential, 20° most certainly can make the difference between pinging or not on pump gas. Also I don't like my chili very hot, so my engine just takes a little longer to warm it up!
If you spilled 160* water on your hand it would give you a nasty burn. I get plenty of heat in the winter at 160* coolant temperature. With the 160* stat in my car, it will run at 170* in the summer on the hottest day. If I get stuck in very slow traffic, I've seen 190*. In the winter, it doesn't want to even get to 140* so I do one of two things, either I use a 180 stat, or I block off 80% of the radiator with cardboard. Either of those measures will get my temps about 180*
I am sorry I was incorrect. Older engines like the Buick have the hot water coming out of the top. Newer Ls1 engines are reverse cooling, they have the cooler water going in the top. But the hottest part of the engine is by the combustion chambers and it can be 20-30 degrees hotter then the water coming out! As for Pro Stock engines, They most definitely DO have cooling systems!!ou: Even Top Fuel Dragsters running nitromethane making 6000 plus HP have water in the block. There are no hoses or radiator but the water in the heads allows the heat to dissipate to the rest of the engine! The crew members drain and fill them with cold water every run, along with rebuilding the entire engine!!
Your points are valid for a racecar. But if it is a "mostly stock" 350, I assume street driving is in the mix. Therefore you have to consider that a hotter engine will run more efficiently (burn the fuel more completely) for better MPG, and produce lower emissions. This is why Buick put 195 degree thermostats in the engines. They also built the components based on this hot temperature, since things expand when they get hot. An individual's selection for a thermostat depends on his individual application. It is certainly possible to have a 350 with a 195-degree thermostat that doesn't detonate. But for racing purposes, no doubt that a 160-degree t-stat will allow you to tune for better performance. BTW don't buy a radar gun, buy an IR gun. -Bob C.
The main reason all modern engines have high thermostats from factory is purely to meet emissions. Tony.
Sorry, it's nowhere near that simple, and just plain wrong. Put 10,000 miles on an engine with an operating temp of 80F, tear it down...you'll be amazed how bad it is in such a short time. Devon
This is 100% true ! I worked for Cadillac for 5 years, and went to GM training schools where that was explained fully. For a street 350 engine a 180 degree thermostat is all you need in the winter. Also if your engine is 1970 or older , Higher compression, you want to run it as cool as possible to reduce detonation!! I have changed many a Cadillac engine back in the early 90s from running them so hot! The aluminum block they used back back then,4.1-4.5, did not like to overheat, and would start knocking after 1 time! Cadillac owner's do not pull over when the red lights come on!! GM lost allot of money on them, and dealership mechanics, like me, would be installing 1 per week on top of all the other work that came in!! But they had to run them at 195-220 degrees to meet emissions!! Don't assume the engineers wanted that engine to run that hot!! The US Government says they have to meet a emissions setting and they do all they can to meet it. Sometimes its for the worse in engine longevity!! I am not saying to run your engine colder then 160-180 degrees, but you don't have to run a 195 to keep it from wearing out? Or diluting the oil?
