Incredible....A 1970 Buick GS Stage 1 appraised at $1,850,000

Ya, many threads on it :Brow: :Brow: :Brow:

 

You hit it. They were clear on that car and the GSX Prodo car (the other 1 of 2 car) so the people at the Auto Show could see inside easyier.

 

They do the same type of crap on the phone in donation sites. Some big shot gets on tv and says he will match any other donation for the next 10 min.. Then the hosts start pumping everybody up. Its all a scam. Sad but true!!

 

The provenance of this car can be verified. Len Immke is gone now, but his sons know the details of this (and the GSX prototype) car. Whether or not they would swear under oath about the details is another matter. The previous owner is a board member who is highly respected in the Buick community. He is confident of the car's provenance.

I first saw this car in the early 1980s, in a barn, partially disassembled. The original fur carpeting was folded up in the trunk at that time. I marveled at the white steering column, steering wheel, and dash pad. I marveled at the brilliant orange color, and the crystal clear glass. I marveled at the low original mileage. I tried to buy the car, and was told in no uncertain terms that it was NOT FOR SALE.

It was then owned by a Buick fan of somewhat less than scrupulous reputation with law enforcement in the Columbus, Ohio vicinity. Without going into too many details, I will just refer to this owner as a street corner pharmacist. The car was covered in the barn (for years) because local law enforcement identified it as belonging to this owner, and they were looking for him. This owner told me of the car's provenance, and I was skeptical. So I did some digging. I spoke with a few in the Immke circle who verified what the owner told me. I found an individual who saw the car in the Buick manufacturer's display at one of the shows in 1970. He vividly remembered the car, and actually remarked about the bright orange paint, all white interior, and clear glass. He had taken pictures of it at the show, but sadly he was unable to find them. After my research, I too became confident of the car's provenance.

That said, does the car's provenance justify it's appraised value? I can not say. The appraiser too is a board member, and respected in the Buick community. He did an appraisal of a close friend's car, and I found him to be diligent and quite competent. Perhaps the only similar vehicle to compare this car with is the GSX prototype, as most GM show cars were either destroyed or retained by GM. Until the recent disposal of much of the GM collection, there were very few of these factory show/concept cars in private collections.

 

At first I too was drawn into the mystique of this car. However, upon closer examination I'm now of the mind that it's either a "shill bidded", "sock-stuffed-in-drawers"- regular Stage 1, or it might even be a Skylark that is completely fabricated into a Stage 1-appearing "ultra scam" with legit-looking "documentation".
Here's what I notice that's suspect:

1)VIN: How does a car that was supposedly "pulled from the assembly line in early Sept. '69" have such a high build sequence # (V.I.N. --121924)?
2)Carpet: As Guy pointed out, that white carpeting on the floors and the bottoms of the door panels looks like it came from an O'reilly store, AND it doesn't even fit properly. There is no way GM would have put white carpeting in ANY car, for obvious reasons--I'm sure not even for a "show only" vehicle-- because such a car has to at least have color & trim options that would at least be available to order on a production version.
3)Dash/Column/Steering wheel: Related to the above-- notice that the steering wheel, column and dash are all white? Never seen that before, ever. What's more, the wheel is a Pontiac-style in white, not a Buick style wheel at all (just has Buick horn button, but wheel itself is like a period GTO, for example).
4)"Restored" Look:Although the description claims it's original, it has a restored look to it. Even a low-mile (13K) car would have some wear and use showing. The hoses look brand new and "chalky".

I agree that such a show car as this one is professed to be existed (or could still exist somewhere), there's really no way to prove that it's really the car the sellers say it is (that this car shown is that same show car). In this day and age virtually anything (especially in the automotive world) can be reproduced.
While I can't say with 100%, incontrovertible certainty that I'm right here, this car's "presentation" just feels wrong.
That said, if it was "unassailably" legit, it might actually be worth the $1.8m--even in this economy.

That's my take, and I'm sticking with it.

 

If this was a show car, shouldn't there be pictures of it from way back in the 70s when it was shown? You'd think it would have probably even ended up in a magazine or two, right?

I wasn't born in 1970, but I'm sure people took pictures back then, and I bet some of you have hot rod and buick magazine collections that date back to 1970. Hell, 1970 is only 40 years ago, I bet some of you can remember those years. Does anyone remember seeing this car when it was new? Or reading about it? Or seeing a picture of it?

 

Here you go. Pics from 1970

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=150479

 

Brad, thank you for your comments. You are absolutely correct. The car is the real thing. It was just time to sell it. I also agree that there are lots of people on this board that probably owe Mr. Chamberlain an apology for some of the ridiculous comments made.

The car is real and it is what it was claimed to be. I saw it at least half a dozen years ago and it was and still is what it is represented to be. If there was and is a Buick guru on this board, it is John Chamberlain. He's about as well rounded a Buick and GS guy as we have. He may not know all there is to know about everything Buick but he is very knowledgeable. He is also one of the best mechanics I have ever met.

He does know that he took a bath on the car, but as he said to me it was time to sell the car...

 

I do not know what to say about some of the things that are being said on here. I don’t really think the accusations that are being tossed around should be. If you have questions ask and you might get some answers. Next it was john’s car to do with as he pleases and sees fit to do. As some others I have also turned lose rare cars that did not bring what they should. When these cars are also your passion it takes something out of you when you let them go. I am sure that is why John does not care to discuss it and besides that, it is no one else’s business. John has helped me in the past and I am sure will do so in the future. I believe John is an honorable person with integrity and I think many here will agree.

Nelson<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<o></o>

 

Thanks for chiming in Brad, I to feel bad for John, I could not believe what happened that day that it sold. As he said though it was time for the car to go to a new home, I'm just sorry it went to a flipper that gave him a BS story about keeping it.

I wish I had money, I'd buy the thing in a heart beat because of what it is and what it means as the holy grail of BUICKs. I'd give it a good home.

As I said in one of my eailer posts, I'm suprized GM hasn't stepped up to buy it back into their collection.

As to the price of 1.8 million, yes I think it is worth that, heck it is 1 of 2. As Brad stated also with all the show cars being distroyed (by any company) were are you going to find another one like this, no were.

David

 

I never thought there was ANY question as to the legitimacy of the car.

My issue was with the trumped up $1.85 million appraisal, and the corruption and unethical business practices of some auction houses, some E-Bay sellers, and some "museum" sellers of high end cars. As the market has fallen, these guys have pulled out all the stops. They made hundreds of thousands of dollars being middle men over the years, doing nothing more than moving a car from point A to point B, and pocketing $40K in the process. Some of them are getting what they deserve now.

On the subject of the red GS, who knows about the $125K bid (that didn't meet reserve) earlier this year. Real bidding could have stopped at $40K, then shill bidding started to boost it to $125K, I'm not sure. Could be why the seller took $72K this time around. And asking $299,000 for a car they paid $72,000 for is gouging, looking for a sucker. Yes, you can ask any price you wish, but asking 4 times the price of the car, pocketing $220,000, is unethical. I've seen "museum" houses do this quite often, and that's why people rarely buy anything from a museum. They sit back and wait for the one naive, liquored up, just-won-the-lotto guy to come stumbling in, looking for a car that will make his friends jealous, who isn't involved in the hobby, and has very little knowledge of collector cars. And they're out there.

Yes, this IS a beautiful show car, and I think it's cool beyond belief. I never ever doubted its history. This car (and the GSX-proto) are well documented, and the two most coveted Buick show cars around (I'd rank the GSX-proto much higher on the "cool" scale though, and I think it's worth far more than the red car).

This red Stage 1 is worth $72K, until someone says otherwise.

 

OK since you had to throw the "every one of you" thing in there I will say this: IMO NO Mopar Ever made is worth millions or even close to what they sale for, just like IMO this 70 is not worth anywhere near close to 2 Million :dollar: No I'm not going to apologize for having an opinion.

 

I don't think anyone has ever said the car was not restored. I know better. And it did come with white everything inside.

 

Oh Yeah....... sic 'em Brad

 

Thanks Brad.

I can still remember people questioning my GSX back at the 83 GSCA Nationals since it wasn't Yellow or White. It didn't matter to them that I had the window sticker, or that my brother ordered the car. It just couldn't be a real GSX, since they only made them in Yellow and White. Knowledge is a great thing.

Zach

 

Brad,
I know you are trying to explain the value of GM Design Study cars, and the fact that so few 1970's examples ever made it out of GM let alone Buick, but you are never going to get through to some people.

If people don't understand the cars history or value then they never will. You just have to let this go, its not worth your time.
Duane

 

Two pictures of John's Car for the nay-sayers


From the 1970 Chicago Auto Show.

 

Chris,

Are you basing all of your opinions here on the research you did on your latest "project"?

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=232704

I guess anyone with a keyboard and a connection to the internet = sudden expertism these days...