With all due respect, Jim, you contradict yourself in almost every recent post in this thread. NOT trying to pick a fight here (with anyone). Would it then be safe to say drilling out channels, holes, journals, passages is really not needed unless you put a much greater demand on the oiling? If everything just 'helps a little' then you could do all the rest and skip the drilling, right? I don't consider not drilling to be 'only part of the job'. With that logic, not using forged pistons or forged rods would be insufficient for stock engines, when we know this isn't the case. You make a very strong case for oiling modifications, and I would steer anyone your way who was building a racing engine with boost or higher RPM usage. Your reasoning is exactly why oiling mods need to be done when the demand calls for it. Just like with smaller exhaust, valves, head flow, carbs, cams, rods, pistons, and factory oiling passages--they all have limitations based on the application, and need upgrading where applicable. For the record, I do not recommend leaving the factory oiling system in-tact with zero mods. Bearings (at least the front cam) and oil pump need attention even on stock engines.
The factory doesn't necessarily use up their entire tolerance range printed in a service manual at assembly. Rebuilt engines suffer greater range of dimensions to work with. I don't have my Buick one at hand, but the Cadillac manual shows a different piston ....for every .0002"!! Safe to say these are matched closer than The Entire Tolerance Range Do you "need" to modify the oil system for a grocery-getter rebuild? Definitely taking your chances when the tools and tolerancing is limited. How many trips to the machine shop are needed? What's that cost? Infallible logic is overcome by bad gambling choices. The forums see waaaay less stories of failures than the machine shops. There's sooo much trouble a newbie can get into, let alone a lightly trained (insert generic brand here) garage enthusiast. The forum here seems to represent the better end of expertise, compared to Youtube videos of failures (haven't seen it yet) The "married" method of Holley fuel pump installation is a good analogy of pump placement and issues with Buicks.
Hyperbole can be effective when trying to convince others of your side of the argument, but can also be misleading when also trying to simultaneously endorse it has infallible truth. Oil pressure and volume go hand-in-hand and have one real goal. The question is: is it sufficient? Do you need to kill that rabbit with a cannon instead of a 12 gauge in order to feel the job was done properly? No matter how you slice it, as long as volume is good and pressure adequate for the intended purposes, the methods of achieving these results are simply a means to an end. Opinions from racing engine builders will tend to be exactly what we see here in this thread. It's been instilled from early on and a multitude of 'mishaps' that have resulted in the advice you see here. The only real cases of failure we see are extreme cases, which do not correspond to standard rebuilding procedures. If these cases need to be underscored as the only real argument in favor of all the suggested drilling modifications, along with 'feeling uncomfortable' with less than 200% oiling needs, shines favorably on the point of view of what is actually 'needed' and what is not.
Some race engine builders have spent time in the industrial and fleet rebuilding facilities, as well as new manufacturing, and could have different opinions. Myself...I'm really not trying to push the OP to do anything but consider what happens if you have to do things twice or deal with global shipping. I don't really care how he puts his engine together. Actually,if he wants to place a brick on the throttle and video the carnage, I'd probably get a chuckle. Not amplifying extreme examples, just illustrating commonplace mistakes and Weak Points to each engine platform. Many of the niche brands are reputed to have 'oiling problems'. Most don't, they have assembly and rebuilder problems based on various logics and truths. (not singled at anyone, coincidental choice of words). Only here to point out that when they have a certain amount of miles on them, they aren't really the same in more ways than one. The parts put in them aren't the same 'fit' as factory. It's already been illustrated that running the potential range of acceptable tolerances along with every other worst case scenario (lifter bores, etc.) places tremendous demands on oiling. I thought I was dead center in this one, but it seems like I'm getting pulled to one side of the debate. Not sure how that happens but I suspect the tenacious approach and skills of the verbose of an attorney level logical thinker. The Uber-thinker. Is that an oven I feel next tome...or is it my fireplace? (That was a compliment thinly disguised as dark humor)
The real 'gamble' with the oiling mods lies in the drilling procedure, which can be a lot more delicate than what has been indicated here in this thread, and poses a very real risk of ruining the entire block for something that wasn't needed. This is my main contention here, and seems I have to endlessly reiterate it out of great importance to understand every angle of this modification. If we do some research on these oiling modifications, we will discover that other engine building professionals share my opinion on oiling modifications pertaining to the oiling passages and intended operating usage. None of them advocate extreme mods outside of basic bearing tolerance/orifice/groove location and oil pump remedies for engines seeing less than 5500 RPM. Don't take my word for it. Research it for yourselves outside of this thread. The real problem with Buick's oiling is the orifice size and location on bearings, lack of groove on factory front cam bearings, and sloppy oil pump clearances resulting from worn timing covers, and not the factory's very capable oiling passages to supply more than adequate volume and pressure as long as these other oiling shortcomings are properly addressed. All this pertains to mild-moderate applications where revolutions, oil cooling needs, and volume for cooling turbo chargers isn't an issue. This isn't necessarily überdenken to me, just very basic logic and knowledge. In all, this has been a very good discussion and I'm glad to have been an integral part of it. You guys are great. Cheers.
Even if you installed the plugs before starting it you still would of had the same problem. The small suction galley combined with the 60 PSI @ 6,000 RPM is what took out the cam bearing! The unmodified oil galley was what created the strain that took out the front cam bearing from the pump trying to drink an extra thick milkshake through a coffee stirrer straw. If your block had most of the oiling mods even with the sealed power cam bearings it would of been much happier. You either need to change your driving habits or do the oil mods. I have never had a problem doing the suction galley mods with an un guided drill, like I said in an earlier post, for the drill not to follow the smaller hole it would have to be started on WAY wrong angle. I do start drilling with a shorter regular drill bit at first then switch to the longer bit. If someone is really bad with a hand drill they can still get good results without a guided drill bit by stepping up the drill sizes in smaller increments like 1/64" at a time with regular drill bits to ensure the drill is following the smaller hole, then when it is to the 1/2" size, switch to the longer bit that will now follow the starter hole without it being guided. The long drill will tell you if you're not holding the drill at the proper angle now because it will suddenly stop. Its drilling holes, not rocket science for crying out loud! If you can't drill a simple hole don't try these mods without adult supervision! I'm a machinist and am use to drilling holes with a drill press or a Bridgeport or some sort of machine and am not the best will a hand drill, so if I can do the mods I don't really see it a problem for anyone else that is mechanically inclined.(its only using a hand drill!!) I also like the idea of extra oil volume with a flat tappet cam to help that thing live by ensuring it gets all the oil(volume) it needs to survive. The OP is changing to higher tension valve springs for his aftermarket cam, that right there is a great reason to do the simple to do oil mods. Jim B., have you scrapped a block by doing these mods? By how you're making it sound you have, do you have any pictures of that fail? Did that block have core shift? What year block did you scrap? Was it an aluminum 215 that you scrapped doing the mods? If so, aluminum is much easier to have the drill bit walk off on a different angle than cast iron because of how soft it is. The drill bit can actually cut the aluminum like an end mill with the flute of the drill bit if its on the wrong angle, with cast iron that is NOT the case. The drill bit will follow the hole within a couple degrees if it is started within a couple of degrees and follow to the end of the hole with cast iron with the worst case scenario being the hole moved off center a bit. Even if an 1/2" drill was off center ALL the way to the bottom of the hole 1/16" off center there would still be enough material for the drill NOT to break through! The only time on a cast iron block drilling that oil gallery larger that there would be a catastrophic failure breaking through would be starting the hole at an extreme incorrect angle, like 30* or more off! If anyone is that far off when starting the drilling they need to stop what they are doing until they sober up and try it later when the whatever buzz is worn off! In other words to mess this up one would have to be falling down drunk when they attempted this mod!
well... this has been warming up since I last been here! There isn't much happening at the moment... parts only here in january, haven't even ordered them! so been cleaning and painting... also took some photos of crank journals. Everyone loves photos... so here they are! and the painting!
More hyperbole. Hot oil isn't molasses, and with the oiling mods you're describing improving oil volume by 10%-15% is nice, but isn't the day and night difference you're trying to make it out to be. It's an added edge for higher RPM/power output usage, which if he was going to make 6000 RPM a regular event, I am in complete agreement with you. By your own admission (in so many words), the factory oiling passages are quite generous in their ability to supply more than adequate oiling if the increase is this small. ...but to answer this statement, the reason wasn't the unmodified oil galley. It was the fact that it was broken in and driven with NO OIL PRESSURE which surely did not leave the bearings unscathed; add in the factory type front cam bearing and no modifications done to the orifice locations as well as the loose oil pump, and the REAL culprits emerge with perfect clarity. EDIT: one last thing. Wasn't this particular 350 a '77? Wouldn't it have already had the 'oiling journal' improvements over the older 350's? And why didn't this save the engine? Could it be that the oiling passages weren't the reason behind its failure? Does this also not give testimony to my points made throughout this thread concerning oiling mods? Or perhaps the oiling passages were never changed, only the increase in size of pickup tube? What does this say about the oiling passage capability from the factory? When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. Food for thought!
Dude; you should of cleaned that block...... nevermind. It would of saved a lot of talking had you showed your block prep at beginning of tale. Takea bunch of Carb cleaner to that block
"the REAL culprits emerge with perfect clarity" Exactly, the inadequate oil suction galley. Breaking in the cam with no oil pressure actually if he had assembly lube on the cam journals the front cam bearing was under WAY less load than when the oil pump can pull oil from the small inadequate from the factory suction galley and was much happier without oil pressure for that short time. The oil pressure issue was corrected, cam bearing meltdown resulted from the strain of running the oil pump @ 6,000 RPM sucking oil through the inadequate from the factory oil galley hole. So how many blocks have you scrapped doing the oil mods? Or how many blocks have you even done this mod to? I suspect that number is a big fat ZERO! See post #306 on how simple the mod is and you shouldn't drill the block if in you're falling down drunk! You're showing your ignorance in the above in bold with that statement. I'm sure you haven't ever done this mod Vicky, you might of broken a fingernail if you did. Victoria Wolfe has been the owner of the phone number for over 10 years that you(AKA Gary Farmer) gave to me! So Vicky, how many blocks have you drilled out? Or are you David Wolfe a relative of Victoria's? If so how many blocks have you drilled out Dave? Or it was your mom's phone and you're her 20 something year old son that lives in the basement? Which is it? You might be more creditable if you told the truth about who you are.
The pickup was changed then so they didn't have to make 2 different ones, that goes back to bean counter engineering because the oil passage was unchanged, Vicky. Reverse phone number look up says you are Victoria Wolfe. I always wondered why you did those back handed insults like a braud would do, now we know, you are one.
In. JP idea about pics here is one showing my late 68 rag with completed engine. Ta 212 cam- 1.65 rollers aluminum intake.ran good enough for me to get to flint from chitown.
Yep. I think this is reminiscent of some things I posted earlier in this thread. What does this say about the factory oiling passages on all 350's then? I'm not even going to dignify your insults with an answer, Derek...
Ah let's see.... 1) distract with slanderous statements about my so called 'alter' identity(ies)....check! 2) insult with calling me a broad (not braud) trying to distract everyone from the issues in this thread that you are clearly losing...check! 3) when simple slander does not work, try questioning my true identity which encourages others to do the same....check! 4) toss in 'lack of experience' for good measure, because well all know there must be at least 1,000 blocks done this way in order to qualify for the knuckle dragger's guide to showing them old engineers how a real man does things, volume III....check! Did I leave anything out? You's some real good entertainment, thanks for the laugh.
One last thing, nice fake voice when I just tried to call you Vicky! LOL Why did you hang up on me though?
I keep my phone turned off, Derek. I usually just reply to texts. Maybe it was the default voicemail computer generated voice you heard? You sure you have the correct number? Leave me a voicemail so I can check it to see if you have the right one.
