Help with my little 350 please...

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by [JP], Sep 2, 2017.

  1. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    Hi all,
    a year and half after importing my GS350 powered 65 chevy truck to the UK, the engine decided to play..

    the engine was out of a 69 GS350.

    it all start with sounding like a flapping under hard accelaration and would not pick up any speed....at smooth throttle the engine was responsive and would go quite well, but give it full pedal and I could hear a flapping noise.
    The other day rebuilt the carb, a holley 4412 500cfm, but made no difference to the full throttle symptom.
    decided to check the timing and inside dizzy and he didn't want to start again.
    thought, what better time than now to put the electronic ignition and ditch the points.... so done that.

    took ages to start but eventually did but with an almighty rattling from the top end. It had always done a little ticking noise, but maybe after 2 days of giving it some, to try shake this flap noise it eventually done something bad.

    so today I started taking it apart, and so far what I found was:
    - nearly all pushrods are slightly bent, one of them was completely different to all others
    - out of all oil lifters, can only pull one out, all the others seem to stuck. feels almost like the bottom has a lip (worn?) and won't let it pull up.

    So... my question where I need help.
    I'm thinking of just getting a mild cam and replace the whole thing.... but not a clue where to start with this.
    My friend said, get a mild cam kit (it's a stock engine and I dont want stupid amounts of power) and new intake manifold, new carb and it will sound and feel much better..

    that's where I need help..
    I looked in summit and speedway and there's like loads of different cam kits. duration?lift? don't know what to choose??
    intake manifolds, don't seem to find any for the 350 V8 though...

    I read the beginning of the there here "my first rebuild of a SBB" and I got scared... hope I dont need to check a bunch of things as was hoping not to take the heads out?



    thanks in advance
    JP

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]2017-09-02_10-20-36 by JP Santos

    [​IMG]20170902_145456 by JP Santos

    [​IMG]Screenshot_20170902-230615 by JP Santos, on Flickr
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  2. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

  3. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    Thanks Larry.
    I had actually found that ally intake on the TA website, however I had been looking mainly at summit and speedway websites as have a friend over here with a shop, and he can ship the parts over in one of his bulk orders, don't think he can get stuff from TA.

    and with that cam you show there, would I use stock lifters and pushrods?
    I had looked at the cam kits at summit and speedway purely for being easy as in one package comes all I need, less change of ordering wrong bits that won't match.

    thanks
     
  4. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Stock lifters. You can probably get away with stock pushrods, but anytime you change a cam, it's good practice to check push rod length.

    I can tell you that Sumitt and Speedway aren't really going to list much for Buick engines. You can probably get a Crower cam from Sumitt, but you may not be able to look it up in their catalog. This cam might be what you are looking for,

    https://www.crower.com/camshafts/buick-350-compu-pro-hydraulic-cam-276-hdp.html

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cro-50258

    The 1969 and earlier engines oil the rockers through a passage way in the block and heads. 1970 and later Buick engines oil the rockers through the pushrods. The lifters are different, and so are the pushrods. Download that TA catalog and look through the pages on valve train parts. They explain it in the catalog.
     
  5. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    TA is the only place that makes, and sells intakes for the Buick 350. Any intake that says it'll work for a SBB on the net, if it's not a stock cast iron, or a TA intake, it's not for a SBB. It's probably for a chevy 350 and people seem to think every 350 is like a chevy. Why do you have a two barrel on it? Get a quadrajet. Stock length pushrods will be fine with whatever cam you get that's under say, .480 lift. But it is in good practice to check length. Get new pushrods. You can't reuse bent ones. Stock type lifters are fine, the crower lifters are here at summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cro-66050-16. I don't know about TA's internation shipping, shoot them an email about it, unless you want to call at about 5pm your time (should be 9am, Arizona time) and ask them. You don't need an aluminum intake at all, it's just lighter, the dual plane anyway. If you don't care about that extra few hp, I used a Comp 268 kit from summit, https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k92-203-4/reviews/ (my engine in the review section). It will however raise the dynamic compression quite a bit, so you need to use the highest octane you can afford. The crower level 3 cam takes the DCR down to about 7.6 (as apposed to 8.4 that the 268 is) to make running pump gas (low octane) easier. Plus the crower would allow for more vacuum at idle for stuff like ac, transmission vacuum hookups, and better feel for power brakes if you ever want to add them. There's really no reason he shouldn't be able to get stuff from TA. Both summit and TA are based in the states. TA is a small business compared to summit, but the parts selection is second to none. By the way, how was your oil pressure?
     
  6. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    So why did all the pushrods bend?
     
  7. Gary Farmer

    Gary Farmer "The Paradigm Shifter"

    Nice pics!

    Get yourself the CS647 cam ($105 from Northern Autoparts). Plug n play friendly (no indexing issues to mess with), no other special parts required (other than replacing those bent pushrods!), though a set of hydraulic flat tappet cam saver lifters from Crower and TA's oil pressure recipe (two main ingredients here are the booster plate and adjustable oil pressure regulator) and it'll freshen up your combination of chosen engine components nicely.

    Make sure to get all the gaskets you need and a new Melling (OEM) timing gear/chain set (about 35-40 U.S. dollars, I think?)

    The CS647 is Federal Mogul's rendition of the OEM replacement cam for the Buick 350, and is considered the 'stock replacement' camshaft for the GS350.

    It will work fine with today's off-shelf petroleum-based lubricating products without any special additives (other than typical cam break-in lube), maintenance, or break-in worries.

    Other than that, consider the Crower level 2 cam or TA's 'RV' cam with that 500 CFM Holley. Just be ready to hone your camshaft degreeing skills along with other required measuring tools.

    Those original valve springs are probably pretty tired too, and if you decide not to replace them, anything outside of an OEM rebuild may cause those pushrods to bend again...
     
    Bob the Tomatoe likes this.
  8. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    Hi guys, thanks for the replies, manic day here as it's my little girl birthday, its 6pm here, I will take the time to reply in a few hours once she goes to bed. thank you again.
     
  9. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    So let me try answer all the questions.

    First - Why summit and speedway. My friend orders in bulk from them to his shop, but dont think he uses TA, by ordering in bulk means my parts can come through his order, saving me on the import taxes and postage, which if I try to order myself, will probably double the price on everything when taking in tax and postage...

    Second - Why it happened. Don't know... When I got it a year ago, there was some running issues, the timing was out, was running way too rich and had fuelling issues. sorted all that, but the full throttle was never there, but I kept driving it around as I dont tend to floor it anyway. more recently I felt the need for power, so been trying to find the problem, meaning the last 2 days to this happening I had been angrily flooring it and keeping it down, "hoping" the problem would go away. it didn't
    the rods are bent but not overly bent..can only see if rolling on a flat surface.

    Third - Oil pressure - don't know.. dont have an oil pressure gauge, but want to fit one, I also noticed I was a bit low on oil, probably due to been flooring it around the last couple of days. It did drink a bit of oil, but nothing like going down so much like it did recently.

    Forth - Carb - I have the 500cfm because that's what came with it and I had been happily driving it around with no issues other than flooring. I have already looked into getting a 4 barrell, but bear in mind here in the UK there isnt as much selection of stuff (second hand) like over there. I did found one on ebay which might be ok? it's a 600cfm Edelbrock

    So.. now onto parts and thanks all for input.

    Intake - if there's no real gains other than being lighter, then I'll keep using the stock intake. give it a good clean and bolt it back on


    Had a look at that cam you mention here, says the idle will be stock, if I'm going to fit a new cam then I'd like it to be a bit more lumpy to hear that lumpy V8 sound a bit more..
    the one you mention says "smooth idle", I think I would like something more like what they describe as "good" or "moderate" idle

    The Comp 268 kit looks like the kind of thing I'm after as in it comes with all the pieces to the puzzle - although a review there says it was missing locks and retainers and the valve stem seals? did you find the same?
    Do this kit give it a lumpy idle? more than stock but not too harsh? as that's what I'm after....
    with this cam I'm right in saying I can run stock length pushrods as the lift is under .480 is that right?

    In terms of high octane, the highest we get here is 97, which is what I run on my 76 Harley Shovelhead. is that high enough?



    right... this sounds complicated when you mention camshaft degreeing skills..
    I'm used to old harleys, this engine is all new to me, so I'm looking for something simple, where I can take bits out and replace with others ones, therefore why i'm so focused on a kit form parts...


    I think I've covered it all? thanks for your inputs gents.....
     
  10. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Did you consider just putting in a set of pushrods and seeing how well the engine runs? You might be able to put off the expense of a total rebuild
     
  11. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    I did think that, but before this happened I had already talked with a friend about what could I do to make the engine sound a bit more grunty and he had suggested the mild cam, etc....
    with this happening, I thought seeing as the engine is already open, might as well spend the money and get it all done.

    it's difficult here because I can't just order stuff and get it next day. so say if I was going the pushrod route, I'd have to order them and a whole set of gaskets.... fit it all, if it doesnt work, then order it all again and wait again for delivery, etc...
     
  12. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    Lump doesn't mean it's making power. And the Edelbrock carb requires a lot of jet/ metering to get the correct fuel curve. It will run lean at cruise to wide open throttle.runs leaner with headers. Not to mention it's small for the engine. The comps cams needs headers to make optimal power as that's it's design. And 3000 converter for auto trans.
    The crower cam sound good under throttle . The 69 gs 350 if it has factory Pistons is only 9.2-9.3 compression actually. I would look for a Buick 350 quadrajet. Maybe one of the carb rebuilders here on the board could build and send one to you. You would be better off checking vs spending 3-600 on a carb that isn't going to gain you anything.
    Suggest a front cam bearing replacement if you do a cam change
     
    MrSony and 300sbb_overkill like this.
  13. BUICKRAT

    BUICKRAT Got any treats?

    Bent pushrods equals over rev or timing chain. The pistons hit the valves or the valves bound up. Either valve float or out of time. Tum Ting Wong.

    my guess is over rev...

    if that were a gs350 engine, it would be a 4 barrel.

    Don't expect a lot from a 350 2 barrel motor.
     
  14. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    Good point. Valve springs are over 40 years old. Worn out. Putting a bigger cam in requires new springs. No getting around it.
     
  15. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    It's got an adapter to run a 2 barrel, for some reason.
     
  16. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    That comp would be fine for your needs. You can use the stock retainers and locks, I did. You NEED new springs. It's not an option. Have the valves lapped while you're at it if you can. The heads need to come apart anyway. You'd need headers (1103hkr is the hooker headers part number), long tube, 1 3/4, etc. for that cam to come alive. It's designed for use in engines with good flowing heads and exhaust systems. The Crower/TA cams are designed with the Buicks admittedly weak flow (in stock form) in mind. That review for it was me, and it came with those weird little white valve stem seals. They wouldn't fit, and I didn't like the dumpy seals the machine shop used, so I ended up using these https://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-st-2002.
    Bottom line, you need new valve springs (comp kit comes with them anyway), it'd be a good idea to get headers at some point, but you don't really need to. I ran it with manifolds and with 2.41 gears, a slippy TH350 trans, my 85 Buick Regal would do 15.0 all day long. That motor was the blue/teal one in the review. If I had an actual converter (stock was 1100ish) and some gear it could've been a low 14s car. And that motor only had about 7.9:1 compression. Get a quadrajet off of ebay. Or one of the vendors on here, EveryDayPerformance, QuadrajetPower, etc. DO. NOT. GET. A. RE-MANUFACTURED. QJET. All the reman qjets are piles of ass gutted and designed to run on any engine, completely defeating the purpose of a qjet. A 7040244 would be fine for your application, it's for a '70 350 and is more common than one for a 69. Here's a link to Qjetpower's ebay listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-350-Q...ash=item1a2f3f67bd:g:zmEAAOSwrblZnX-1&vxp=mtr They also have it listed on their site, among other carbs. As others have said, lump doesn't mean power. It just means more duration and overlap. Also, get a new cam bearing. TA sells one for 17+shipping that has grooves on the backside, and relocated holes for improved oiling. They also have a booster plate and adjustable oil pressure regulator, and oil pump rebuild kit with all the necessary hardware. TA is literally the only place you can get aftermarket performance parts.
     
  17. MrSony

    MrSony Well-Known Member

    The buick timing sets are easy enough to install, they slide on. Line up the dots with #1 on TDC on the compression stroke, and away you go.
     
  18. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    btw......JP drinks imported beer!:D
     
    Gary Farmer likes this.
  19. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    So the 600cfm is too small for this engine? I was told sometime ago that would be just about right. I actually have a Holley 750 in the garage, but never used it as was told it was way too big for a 350 V8....

    what you mean if that were? you saying is not a GS350?
    when I found the engine numbers and someone kindly decoded them for me here it came out as this:

    491152693
    4=Buick
    9=1969
    1=built at Oshawa, Canada
    152693 = sequential number
    and between cilinders 1 and 3 there was the letters RP, making it the 280hp

    thanks for this MrSony.

    So let me see if I'm getting this right in terms of the stuff I need to get:
    The stuff from TA I'm going to try find in summit or speedway, if I can't I'll see if I can buy it, ship it in the US over to speedway/summit and get them to package with all the stuff coming in from them.

    Comp Cams 268 kit - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cca-k92-203-4/reviews/
    Valve stem seals (16 of these) - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/slp-st-2002/overview/
    Hi Performance Cam Bearing - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1558
    Pushrods (guess this is for a set, but doesnt even say length or anything) - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1419A

    Replacement oil pump kit - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1507
    Oil pressure regulator - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1502
    Oil pump booster plate kit - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1510

    Gasket Set - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/slp-260-1012/overview/year/1969/make/buick/model/gs-350
    Valley pan - old one looks fine, so maybe don't need a new one and just gaskets? - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/fel-ms96006/overview/make/buick

    thanks!


    Haha, yes I do... drink Bud, ride Harleys, have a truck, wear a tractor depot cap or peterbuilt... really, i'm in the wrong country LOL


    thanks for all the replies!
    I'll get some photos of the intake manifold this evening, as it was mentioned it having an adapter plate.
     
  20. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Yes use the 750 cfm carb. The buick 350 loves a 750-850 cfm carb even when stock... We think that the restrictive head and intake flow through the engine causes the engine to want more fuel than other engines.
     
    MrSony likes this.

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