I’m not in love with it by any means Larry, and if you have a recommendation for a more reliable and user friendly HEI set up, please send them my way. This distributor was just a target of opportunity purchase for me when my original HEI left me stranded. It’s funny that this came up, as I was considering purchasing a different one lately anyhow. I’ve been researching MSD 6a boxes and the like. Seems like that paired with an MSD ready to run distributor might be a better set up. Thoughts?
Duke, Years ago, I had Dave do a stock distributor up for me. I chose his MSD magnetic trigger option. You send him an old points distributor and he rebuilds it, re curves it, and fits it with an MSD magnetic pick up and harness. You plug it into any MSD box. https://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/ Looks like he is in business again. I'd get one.
Finally got some information about my engine. I called back to the states and spoke to the engine shop who built it. Turns out, they never measured my piston depth. So the ~9.8:1 and 425hp/550tq he quoted me was baloney. 5 years ago I didn’t know hat I know now or I’d have asked for this information. the only thing he provided for the services performed: block deck height measured 10.57 prior to the clean up cut which he estimated was 10-12 thousandths. Other than that, the only machine work was to balance the rotating assembly, JW oil mods, set spring pressures and heights, 3 angle valve job, and new guides valves and seats in the stock 70 heads. The pistons I got were the 1621-A from TA and their site says “forged stock type replacement” so I don’t know the full details of them. Assuming they are the same detentions as the stock ones were just +.040 overbore. I played with a compression ratio calculator I found online. Plugged in 20 thousandths for the head gasket and swagged the pistons at .038 in the hole. Everything I read says stock blocks varied from .040-.060 in the hole. So I chose .050 and subtracted the worst case 12 thousandths for the clean up cut. I chose 76cc for my heads since they were never machined. Scouring the net gave me that figure. Bottom line, I played with the figures and WAG my SCR from 8.8-9.1 at best. I will take the heads off and measure for myself when I get home since I’m basically planning in a vacuum. The brass tax of it all, is I’m pretty sure I don’t have near the CR I thought I had or should have with this combo. Regardless, I’m going to purchase the SE stg 1 heads from TA and have them ported. My motor is coming out to replace the oil pan and tidy up some minor things like grime and fix the seeping leak at my oil pan gasket. So since I’m pulling the engine, I’m just going to replace the heads and fix a bunch of loose ends while it’s out, new radiator core support, going with rear disc conversion, cleaning up some wiring and things like that. TA shows 64-66cc in the specs for their aluminum heads. Is this a selectable figure? Or do you get somewhere in the middle due to manufacturing tolerance differences? I will go with a good .020 head gasket with the heads to try and gain a point or more of compression. The 284-88H only has .460 IN/EX lift since I’m keeping the stock rocker arms. I’ll double check clearances, but at even at a best case .028 in the hole(subtracting largest quoted .012 clean up from most shallow depth of .040), with the 64cc chambered aluminum heads, I come up with 10.6:1 SCR which is right where I want to be. am I on the right track here guys? Other than being pissed about my lack of measurements, I’m doing my best to jock up a plan for the way forward.
The head gasket is going to be .040" unless you can use the steel shim gasket. .027" for the thinnest Cometic gasket. With .038" in the hole, 76cc chambers, and 23cc dish, i get about 9:1. If your TA heads have 64cc chambers, I get about 10:1, When Gessler did my heads, he milled them .040" and my chambers were 59cc. If you did that, you would be at 10.4:1,
Thanks for this info Wizard! I’m not familiar with the different head gaskets. Is there a benefit to the thin steel Cometic gaskets vs say fel-pro or whomever else? I see that your gasket bore is a different number than I was tracking. I just went with 4.3125 as the standard bore size, obviously a poor assumption on my end. So you’re educating me here and I appreciate that. It makes sense though, as the gaskets wouldn’t and shouldn’t have a smaller diameter than the cylinder size. ♂️ Silly oversight to do what I did. Last question is about milling the heads. When you had Gessler mill yours down, was that just to achieve a specific CR you were looking for? I gather there wouldn’t be any intake alignment issues in doing so? It seems I’ve read guys have only had issues with that when cutting a substantial amount off the deck height to bump up CR that way prior to the ability to purchase longer compression height pistons and such. Am I understanding this correctly?
The steel shim gaskets (.020") were not compatible with later 455's mid 71 and up I believe. If your block is double scallop with oval core holes, it won't work. Also, not really sure about the steel shim gaskets and aluminum heads. I think the tried and true Felpro gaskets are the most common gaskets used. I am using the performance Felpros in my current build. They are .040" thick and the bore size is 4.385. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1125/make/buick The standard Felpro blues have a smaller bore size. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-8494pt/make/buick When I swapped over to the aluminum heads, the measurements on my motor calculated to 9.4:1 static compression. To get the most out of aluminum heads, you want 10.5:1 - 11:1 compression depending on cam used. I remember Greg telling me that taking .040" off was no big deal and I wouldn't have any alignment problems, and I never have. That made my chambers 59cc boosting my compression to 10.4:1. When my current motor was built at TSP, JW did some more porting to my SE heads, and the chambers ended up being 61cc. I bought the custom Diamond pistons and was able to size the piston dish/valve relief cc's to tailor my compression which is now 10.53:1. So you can deck the aluminum heads without worrying about them affecting your plans on a future build. Just use a custom piston as I did. You'll get 0 deck and the correct dish to get the compression you need.
Quick update on this head swap: I just ordered a set of stage 1 aluminum “street sleeper” heads from Tim just now. I went with their level one porting like Larry mentioned in previous posts. He said it would gain another ~25cfm or more. They didn’t have any of the regular versions and were down to three castings left of this sleeper type. He said it’s just an aesthetic deal where the deck area is cut out by the spark plugs to look identical to irons. Tim also recommended the 310 cam to take advantage of the extra head flow over the 284-88h that I have now. Was he just pushing product? Maybe, maybe not. But I was in the market for a cam that complimented this head purchase with a bit more lift over what I have now that advertises a 1500-5500rpm powerband. Originally I was looking for the TA 413 as a replacement. In addition to the heads, porting, and cam/lifters, I got a fresh set of the HD rockers since mine are the ones I got with this engine and I’m unaware of their mileage and wear. I bought this motor used and it spun a rod bearing in two weeks. It was then rebuilt (5 years ago) and I reused the serviceable rockers at that time. Figured it was wise to get a fresh set now with the extra lift of this cam. Im thinking my adjustable pushrods should still be fine as they were purchased at that rebuild time, requiring minor length adjustments for lifter preload and what not. Am I on track here? Lastly, does anyone have any experience with the TA310 cam?
So an update here, the heads came. I’ll begin to remove the iron heads today. The engine is out the car and trans is shipped off too. Completed a disc brake conversion (nightmare at times) while waiting for parts to arrive. I’ll be replacing my radiator core support as well, so the entire front has been removed. I’m wondering what the difference of these two cams will feel like and am considering staying with the 284-88h I have installed now. I think Larry actually recommended this earlier. Still I purchased a TA310 cam and lifters to compliment the heads but am not certain I should install them. My goal is to change gears at 5800 from time to time on the street. Trans is a stage 2 TH200-4R with a reverse manual valve body. I have 2 9.5” billet torque converters to choose from. Each have one wire lockup in 3rd and 4th gears. Stall ranges are 2400-2600 or 2800-3000 rpm. This is all background info to help me gain an idea of which route to take. Too many options and not enough knowledge! Lol!
The TA310 is a straight pattern cam, but you'll have good heads now. You'll definitely want the higher stall converter with that cam. Not really sure of either of those converters if they weren't built for your engine, they may stall higher than you think.
The converters were built for me and I got them from Lonnie at extreme automatics. He is a top notch guy, by the way, if anyone is looking for a 4spd overdrive. I’ve only sent my trans back so it could be upgraded to handle the more torque these heads will produce. I’m super pumped for them to go on, and the learning process for all the background steps to getting it right. I’ve bookmarked the power time thread, and have been researching getting the adjustable pushrods right. It’s been a while for all of that. First step is figuring out exactly how far in the hole my pistons are. Where can I find a dial indicator for this? Autozone didn’t have one to rent. I’ll get some pics up of these heads when I get the old ones off! Street sleepers!
Go on comp cams site. They have engine tools. Adjusting valves is easy. Watch some you tube videos. There are also many discussions here on the subject. Call TA. You are a good customer and I’m sure they would love to help you. Enjoy the build. Look forward to hearing the results. You have a great opportunity here to make some real power!!!!!
I got the heads off and replaced my dented oil pan. It would never stop leaking and was quite a pain. As I inspected the contents of the boxes I noticed that my HD rocker arm shafts were missing and now have to file a claim to ups (per TA PERF) for their clearance for TA to replace them. One of the boxes was heavily damaged upon delivery and it is possible that the rockets were missing in transit. Someone attempted to tape the box back prior to delivery. I’ll post a pic of it. so I found out my heads are casting number 1231786 and are from a 67-69 455 with 69cc chambers. That was interesting since I bought this motor being told it was a 1970 SF code out of an Electra. It did have SF stamped on the block face between the plugs when I got it. I had these irons built with TA springs and all new hardware(seals, valves, retainers, etc) when this motor was built in 2016. These aluminum’s are way better looking. I can’t decide whether to pint them red or leave them raw. Thoughts?
I was surprised to see the porting for level 1 to be so shallow in the ports. I ported my old irons off the original 350 engine Before I swapped to this 455. The gasket matching is killer. I just expected more in the chambers. Can someone help me understand what I’m reading in these two images. I don’t understand the significance of these numbers in relation to flow cfm and such. Sorry for the crappy photos. I can reshoot if needed!
1231786 are 1970 455 castings, not 67-69 400, 430. There was no 455 in 1967-9, 1970 was the first year. Paint the heads or you will be sorry after a while. Aluminum bare will get dirty and nasty looking. Having the surface polished is one solution. Mine are painted Buick Red. If you like the aluminum color, then paint them that color. The nice thing about aluminum is it dissipates heat, so the paint will not burn off anywhere. I still have the original paint 8 years later.
Have a look at stock flow numbers in this GSExtra article, The flow sheet shows you flow at each valve lift. An engine is basically an air pump. The more you can move in and out, the more power you make.
Thanks for the info Larry! Yeah, I agree about painting them now. I can see the effects of dirty aluminum in my timing cover. Is your timing cover painted red too? Also, I plan to complete the cam swap tomorrow. I keep seeing conflicting information about whether or not to soak the lifters in oil prior to installing them. I seem to remember I did this when cam swapping my 350 years back, but I’ve read two articles about not doing it and several that say soak. What do you Buick pros do? thanks for everyone’s advice in this thread!
Last thing for the night, I measured the piston depth and got .030 in the hole. My MLS gasket is .036 compressed. Heads cc’d at 65.3. I calculate a 10.09:1 static CR if everything is right.
