Fuel prices skyrocketing???

Heard on the news this morning about $70-$80/barrel crude prices on the horizon??? what prompted that rumor???

Tell ya what, i'm no doomsdayer, but this will literally shut this country down, and I already don't see the economy as being as good as Washington says it is, at this point anyways....

Am I right or wrong???

JH

 

You are right. There was a great article in National Geographic titled "The End of Cheap Oil" a few months back.

The U.S. government never learned it's lesson from the Oil Embargo in 1973/74.

We are going to take a big hit, as the supply and demand today is very, very tight.

One major disruption, and it will be 1929 all over again.

Just my .02

And, yes, I had a muscle car in 1973/74.... ou:

 

My thought on this is two fold:

We have oil reserves between us and Canada that are far larger than in the middle east. Yet we don't drill there because of the fears of contaminating the wilderness (tree hugger groups). They are loud and strong and know how to beat the system as they are also backed by deep pockets tying up drilling for years in legal fights.

Refining crude oil in this country is almost non existent because of the high cost of refining. Because of enviomental laws and higher wages paid etc. Another words it's far cheaper to import refined oil.

So how do we crack things open?

Have the imported oil go through the roof let the public scream let the economy take a short (I say short) dive.

Now with importing crude being expensive it will make refining oil in this country cheaper or equal in cost. Now big business will invest as profits can now be made.

Next: Because of huge public out cry new laws will be pushed to enact drilling in regions where oil reserves are plenty, that now have been banned. The tree hugger groups who reject this will be dwarfed by the overwelming public out cry to drill for oil. The deep pocket backers who now are losing money in the market will drop their cause as their own investments and business will dwindle

In the end the spin will read:

We will drill and refine and declare better independence from foriegn Countries. We better help our farmers by making more ethanol fuels from corn etc. Oil companies will survive and make their profits. And during this process the general main stream public will be screwed. But afterwards all the politians (regardless if Republican or Democrat, the're all the same) will announce how they helped America stand back up being independent yadi yadi yadi...and the price of gas per gallon will most likely hover around $3. a gallon.

What can we do.....hate to say it nothing. Tighten our belts and hang on for the ride I guess. Just like with that old "Who" song says, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss". I guess now is the time to watch closely on your investments so that in a short drive in the economy you won't lose your shirt.

It sucks! Yep it does!

 

I agree totally with what Rick has said. It all boils down to money. Let's look at some basic numbers (am an accountant by trade) and see what is happening financially. All businesses run on profit margin which is what they want to make on any given product. Let's say it is 10% of the sale price. When gas was selling for $.35 a gallon, they made 3.5 cents for every gallon sold.
Now at $3.00 per gallon, they make 30 cent per. All for doing the same job they did before and doing no additional work. I know this sounds simplistic, but it is true. There are always other hidden costs, but the basic principle is the same. As prices go up, more money is made. So, why should the oil companies do anything to help us? o No: All that will happen is that they will drill here in the US (sometimes stands for Unbelievably Stupid) and keep the crude oil prices "competitive" with OPEC. In short, dig deep folks, it's gonna cost.
The bell tolled for us in 73/74 and we ignored the sound. By now we should be running our basic transportation on hydrogen and alcohol. Instead we suffered from CRI (Cerebral Rectal Intrusion) and ignored the future.
Here is one scenario that could have worked and put a wrinkle in the plans of OPEC. Hydrogen can be taken from water, the most abundant source on the planet. Not from oil as the oil companies would like us to. The result of separating it would release oxygen into the atmosphere. This would be a plus as with the increased destruction of the rain forrests, it would help replace the loss and keep the tree huggers quiet.
Now, of course, we need an energy source to fuel this process. No, not oil but alcohol created from the surplus grain supplies we have here. Alcohol is cleaner burning and (as I understand it) generates water vapor in the process which can also be used for getting hydrogen. Sounds like a win/win scenario.
I am not a chemical engineer and don't know all the in's and out's of this process, but individuals more informed than I have been ignored due to "cheap" oil.
Since the first barrel of oil seeped from the ground, the oil companies have done a great job of controlling this country. This will likely take place until the last barrel it taken.
Once a company figures how to charge us for air, it will likely be the last free thing we have. After all, we are already paying for water. ou:
I'll get off my soap box for now.

Mark

 

Every time the prices get to a comfortable low the Arabs cut production. I wish some of the big wigs would come talk to a few of the struggling, smaller independant-owned gas stations around the country and know what kind of pinch it puts on us. Hmmm, the pipeline in Alaska has more than enough oil that we don't have to depend on foreign oil exports. Oh well, we've got to have it, so we'll just suck it up and tighten our belts. Not much you can do to fight big business.
ou:

 

Hydrogen can be taken from water, the most abundant source on the planet.

true, hydrogen can be cracked from water ... but you're forgetting a very important point. it is very expensive, both dollar wise and energy wise to do so. you don't have anything like the energy efficiency involved in refining crude to gas.

this is the same problem with ethanol. even with gov'ment subsidies ethanol would still be $2-3 per gallon. not the most efficient thing.

 

You are right, it won't be cheap. Nothing ever is. That has been the argument for years. Oil has always been the best bargain. Will it always be is the question.
As the supply dwindles, it will only be more expensive.
I was just giving an alternative perspective. My concern is that our hobby will become more expensive and become as easy target as to part of the cause of high fuel prices as it has in the past.
We need some alternate plans, or be prepared to just look at our cars parked in the garage and no longer driven.

My 2 cents,
Mark

 

Don't worry: petrol is at US$ 6.43 for 1 US galllon here in the Netherlands, and we still drive our cars. :3gears:

You'll get used to high fuel prices :laugh:

 

First off the "big wigs" couldn't give a rats behind. It all seems to be "dog eat dog". They would love to drive out the independants, then they can monopolize the entire market.

Regarding gas stations, sorry I hate to say this (no insult intended) but I have no sympathy for most of them.

Why?

Because as soon as you hear on the news that crude oil will be going up shortly, take a ride to your neighboring gas stations and you will see that they just jacked up the price of a gallon even though that gas was already bought at a lower price and is sitting in their tanks under ground. And the new prices of crude hasn't even arrived in this country.

Yet hear on the news that gas prices should drop and your same local gas station will not lower the prices until a few weeks down the road.

That drives me totally nuts! Can someone please answer that question for me? And please don't say "that this is illegal price gouging report it asap" because people do and nothing is done about it. It's just like reporting a complaint to the better business or I should say spitting into the wind.

Is there a true logical no spin reason for gas stations to do this? Or is it just a plain "make as much as you can" mentality.

 

You are 100% correct! The money is out there. As long as people keep buying gas guzzling SUV's that sends the signal to the oil companies that people are still willing to pay. So they continue on drilling "our" pockets with higher costs. And it's not just the foriegn countries. You can easily find that many oil tankers are told by big business to wait just outside our boarders with full loads waiting for crude to rise so then they come into port making more money. The're all in bed together.

Once the automotive industry starts to tank then oil prices will remain stable or drop slightly. Then big business will work together. Build a better car and the people buy it and then the cycle starts all over again. And during this time the politians all preach their spins on how they helped defeat the big bad oil companies.

In the end take a look at history: What killed the muscle car market. 1. high fuel costs 2. High insurance costs

Well it's happening to the SUV market now. In a few years or less they will be giving them away.

 

I have no problem paying a fair price for anything. However, I work for an organization that thinks a $3 a week (that's week, NOT hour) annual raise is too high. At $ 6-7 per gallon, there will be alot of us parking our cars.
Before I get flamed, it is not going to be that high. We have had it too good for too long here and we have to pay the piper some time or another. The situation is not going to get better and at some point we have to plan something.
My problem is when people or businesses make too much extra on the difficulty of others. Yea, I know all that free enterprise crap. But gouging, as Rick stated above, whether at a service station or corporate level is offensive.
I know other countries pay higher fuel prices and think it is funny that we complain here. But remember, as prices for fuel go up here, anything you buy from the US and import in is going to cost more as well. It won't be funny for long.

Mark

 

I can't wait to print the thread on switching to propane...if it runs the same and sounds the same and still has the same performance it did when new then hey why not? o No: :TU:

 

I realize you have no sympathy for gas stations. We're usually the last ones in line hearing people complaining every day when they come in to fill up. We've been an independant service station since 1969. Second generation, family owned. We are under Conoco brand, but we don't get a big "buy in" like the larger corporate owned stations in the major metropolitan areas. They have their own marketing department that buys millions of gallons at a time and thats why they can offer cheaper prices at certain times. We have to fluctuate nearly on a daily basis because a lot of the time a load of gas will come in at the price we're selling it. We also try to sell it for no more than 2-3 cents profit. There is a larger filling station in town that's corporate-owned and they can afford the big buy-ins. We've survived in a town of 1500 people quite normally and comfortably until the last few years with the gas price inflation. The last 2 years, we've had to take loans out to cover the cost of an occasional loads of fuels. Luckily we have an attached repair shop to help keep the doors open. Selling fuel surely wouldn't. I will admit, there are places that gouge people. That's never been an issue with us. Some people think it, but in a small town where everyone knows you, it's hard to screw people when they know you so well. There's crooks and honest people involved in the whole deal. It's just a shame when you're trying to make a living doing this and people think you're a thief at the same time because of politicians and big corporations in bed together.

 

Gas is affordable, it's just that sometimes I think it is ridiculous. It is a buck 78 here in Keokuk Iowa and across the bridge to hamilton illinois it is like a buck 98. Wow, just across the bridge. And then it is like a buck 73 across the missouri boarder from iowa on the south side of town. If the demand is there, so is the oil. The u.s. has been waiting for a rainy day to use the oil we have, but are we ever going to get to touch that oil? Probably not, we have to get it from arabia kuwait and the so. I can hardly wait for summer to come so gas can reach an all time high of 2 bucks here in keokuk-NOT. I think propane conversion seems likely for me if it ever reaches above 5 bucks in the future.

 

I totally agree with Rick. Also as mentioned above, hydrogen is just around the corner. Just like in the 70's, alternative fuels will garner more attention when the squeeze starts to piss people off. Everytime alternatives are seriously discussed, as it was recently when GM unveiled their hydrogen project (using hygrogen powered "stanard" chassis on which different body types are attached), the arabs start to freak and increase production/drop prices. This is how I see it playing out in the near future.

True, hydrogen is not nearly as cheap to produce compared to pumping oil out of the ground, but soon the price of oil might match or be competitive with hydrogen. What would happen once the majority of people use alternative fuels? In the long run (after feeble attempts by the arabs increasing production to direct our attention away from alternative fuel sources), wouldn't gas prices go even higher due to lower demand?

 

I run a fleet of delivery trucks, and I own the company. I know this is gonna hurt BAD!

What really P's me off is that better things are out there.

For example, did you know that Henry Ford actually DESIGNED the model "T" to run on hemp fuel.

His idea was that gasoline was expensive and not always available, but just about anyone could grow marijuana in their own back yard and refine it into a cheap and readily available fuel themselves.

Here's another one,
George Washington Carver found a way to make cheap diesel fuel from soy beans..... And our government is PAYING farmers to not grow crops o No:

There are literally HUNDREDS of alternate,,, and much more environmentally friendly fuels available to us right now, and at compeditave or even cheaper prices than imported oil.

Sooner or later were all gonna have to rise as one voice and say we have had enough of this crap! Only then can we give a serious look at fueling our nation domestically and more eco-friendly.

Who's with me :rant:

 

They were talking about this on the radio the other day while I was at work. 25 Cents within the next few weeks and the economists estimate $3 a gallon by august. :ball: I'm glad I haven't sold the summit, 26mpg city.

 

I'm with you on that Jim. And everytime they mention job creation, they don't mention what kind(low buck) kind of jobs. Up here in Ohio its a LOT of manufacturing, and we're taking a huge hit from the Chinese already. The company I work for is in the middle of a 50% across the board cut as it is, its getting pretty ugly. If crude goes that high,we're sunk.......... :af: :af:

 

I'm with you Daryl. I think anything we can do to stop dependancy on arab oil the better off we will be. Let them eat there oil and see how they like it. Seems to me like every spring when people get ready for vacation the price of gas goes up. Well so much for my two cents worth. Bernie Steffen

 

I would love to have alternate fuels, one ? remains, can we get the alternate fuel(s) and the combustion engine to cooperate? Great idea, but one question remains, and that is the one above^.