Here is my problem. I like to recycle. I do use the CFL. I paid 30.00 to recycle an old TV instead of pitching it in a dumpster. I want the world to be clean enough for my grankids to live a healthy life. I am no enviro wack job. I do not believe in Al Gores BS. I will say that pollution has improved since I was a child. I remember going downtown as a kid and seeing the soot from all the businesses that used coal for heat. The smog in St Louis was so thick you could only see for a couple blocks. America has cleaned up its act and most of the movement in my opinion is just a way to get into the pocketbooks of rich Americans by the rest of the world. China makes everything and until American industry can make what we need in a way thats not harmful to the environment we will still be contributing to world pollution by way of China. My question is why do we need all this crap from China? Is it so that corporations can import at a cheap price to increase the bottom line? Why not put some constraints on the EPA and start making the goods we need here. I understand the EPA has now made your exhalation a hazzardous chemical (Carbon Dioxide) SO while I sit here writing I am adding to the global warming If I can just hold my breath forever I might be able to save a western field mouse or a purple throated warbler. Come on everyone together hold it......hold it...... hold it. I agree that some businesses will use the green movement to make more money from their goods or services. I guess we need to be well informed and vote for people that will uphold laws based on real science not retoric
Thanks for the psycho-analysis, do I owe you anything?ou: Oh, wait a minute, I only pay fair market value, and my book says it's worth nothing...
:gp: And yes, it IS so that corporations can import at a cheap price to increase the bottom line. Period. :af: The green movement is probably the biggest fleecing-of-America attempt in the history of our country. It is a calculated effort to turn control over to the gov and create more bogus programs to create higher taxes. I'm with you, I like to be environmentally friendly. I recycle everything. I do my part. I don't drive a Prius because I DON'T WANT TO. I still have that choice as long as the government stays the hell out of my way. By the way, to your point about this country being cleaner than it was when we were kids, that is absolutely true as far as the air goes, and the Hudson River as well now that I remember. The city air is way, way cleaner and the Husdson once they nailed GE to almost destroying it got much cleaner. Unfortunately, not clean enough to completely keep the stripers from glowing but definitely better. But that is apparently not good enough. Some of these whackos want it all. You car, your batteries your friggin incandescent light bulbs. They can all go to :af:
I'm with Staged70 for the most part. We have pretty much everything coming from China because we are demanding low prices on pretty much everything. I differ with some of you in that I don't mine the CFL bulbs. I replaced most of our bulbs with CFLs and there has been a noticable drop in our electric bill. We have a larger house (twice the sq ft) as our old house and aren't really doing anything different than we did there but our electric bill is less at the current house.
Around here, the plan is to build surface light rail that will block automotive traffic to the point that you will give up driving your car and ride the train. The power elites want us to be like Europe. They have this euphorian vision of how the world should be. MN Public Radio has been behind efforts in promoting a rail line linking downtown Mpls. with downtown St. Paul. But now that plans are in place, they are suing the Metropolitan Council because the train runs in front of their studios in downtown St. Paul. They are concerned about noise and vibration, and are not satisfied with steps that have been taken (which will add millions to the cost) to eliminate any noise and vibration that may upset Garrison Keillor as he does his Prairie Home Companion show. Right now, you can drive this route between the 2 cities in about 15-20 minutes depending on how many red lights you hit. The estimated time for the train to make the same trip is 45 minutes. The public isn't at all behind it, and all the businesses along the way will be adversely affected because they will lose on street parking. Most of these businesses are owned by a diverse group of hard working immigrants trying to get a piece of what is left of the American dream. This will also most likely put an end to the Friday & Saturday night cruising that has gone on for years down this same stretch of University Ave. :af: Oh, and we do recycle and do use the cfl bulbs in the house. But, funny thing is, those cfl bulbs always seem to shatter into tiny pieces when they are burned out. Rendering any attempt at taking them to a recycling place impossible.
I'd love to join this discussion, but I don't want to be engaged in more BS than what I already am. I'm an MOR-type of guy who doesn't fall for Global Warming propaganda, but I also believe in reducing my impact on the Earth. That being said, so they're marketing stuff to attract the Greenies? BFD. Who here doesn't use emotion with some purchases? What about your car? If you're completely rational, then you have every right to act like your doodie doesn't stink.
My beef with modern environmentalism is how politicized it has become. It seems as if environmentalism has become the means to an end, not the end itself. Man made global warming is a great example. The people pushing it since the seventies always knew what the problem and more importantly -the solutions-were and all their work has been towards proving their theory, regardless of what the data said. That's not how science works. How many free market, small government capitalists are there in the board of the Sierra Club or Greenpeace? Rather interestingly, it is in capitalist nations where nature is best preserved. Look at the HUGE messes they made behind the iron curtain or China... And this is coming from a person who used to consider himself an environmentalist. I used to recycle LONG before it became trendy and I HATE seeing a tree being cut. Mikel
This planet and humanity have HUGE problems. Even if man-made global warming is real, is spending trillions of dollars to change global temperatures a few tenths of a degree this century the best use of our money? Imagine all the lives that could be saved with some insect control or drinking water processing equipment in parts of the third world, for a percent of that money.
The greenies,the UN, and our government are pushing the agenda and want us to use a lot less. Funny thing is, the UN and the US government are some of the grossest polluters and use/waste huge amounts of energy. They want you to cut back on driving for one thing. But will they give up flying around everywhere in wastefull jet airplanes? The usual "Do as we say,not as we do". They can kiss my :moonu: What a bunch of hypocrites. Did anyone notice the "Green Police" ad during the SB? Just some more conditioning for the future. I've said this before,but please familiarize yourself with the UN Agenda 21 Plan for Sustainable Developement to get a good idea of what's going with our nation's future. While you are at it, look up the "Georgia Guidestones" that some wacked out rich elite put up years ago and you will see the way these greenies think. Pushed on by the UN no doubt. Seriously. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq58zS4_jvM&feature=player_embedded
This all relates to the disintegration of our society. All we have to do is take a good look at how things were back in the day compared to now, and it just keeps getting worse. The problem is we're sacrificing ourselves to benefit everyone else in the world.
Quick question - What's more detrimental to the environment - driving an SUV for 30 minutes to work or running 30 minutes to work? Correct responses will get an e-pat on the back.
Interesting Thread. Got me to thinking about what is the definition of a "Greenie" or a "Treehugger" or an "Enviro Wac Job"? Why do these groups, or the EPA for that matter, even exist? Why does this country even need the EPA? The EPA hasn't always existed, has it? Was there something that happened that highlighted the need for all of this oversight? I have walked past the the EPA Headquarters in DC recently... ENORMOUS building...I'm going to need some taller gears to race the length of that building. Lots and lots and lots of tax dollars going into that facility. Why does it need to exist at all? I wonder what this country would even look like if there were only one group on either of the extremes? Like if one group won and they got their way on every environmental decision? One extreme says "its all good" as long as we make money. The other extreme pretends jobs don't matter all. Are there really only 2 choices?
The EPA was started up in 1970 or '71. I remember the anti pollution tv ads from back then, like the native American indian paddling down a polluted river with the ad showing the old indian with tears in his eyes.
I found it. Here it is. This should bring back some memories for some of us...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7OHG7tHrNM
how about the fact that the EPA MAKES NO LAWS? how about the fact that the EPA receives significant instruction in the interpretation of existing ( and nominally Constitutional ) law from the Executive branch? thanks for providing an additional data point to bolster my thesis. Probibly that its against the law=Constitution for the EPA to establishany laws:rant: ah, i see WV-Madman beat me too it. not that the point was particularly difficult though. Here is an amusing video: it's only amusing until you think about how much damage these climate assholes are doing. the sorry fact is, that the global average temperature has still not risen to the level of the Medieval Warm period. therefore reducing the pressure on coal fired power plants nuclear plants are good enough for the rest of the planet. please do explain why the most technologically advanced society on the planet cannot be permitted to build any? we will still be contributing to world pollution by way of China. bada-bing, bada-boom. http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/ Man made global warming is a great example. The people pushing it since the seventies actually, not true. the environmental lie of the 70s was "Man made global cooling". complete with horror stories about the glaciers coming down from the north and crushing Minneapolis and everything. it wasn't until the mid-80s that the enviros realized they weren't likely to be getting those huge blizzards that we had in the 70s to try and terrorize people with. What's more detrimental to the environment - driving an SUV for 30 minutes to work or running 30 minutes to work? you live some place where you can jog the same distance in 30 minutes that you could drive? even Washington DC wasn't that bad when i lived there. The laws were put into effect because our natural resources were being used up quickly. something else: Malthus was foolish in 1800. his scarcity fantasies haven't been proven any more rational in the intervening 200 years.
Do you think I should replace my points with one of the summit petronix things? I also want to know how much horsepower I can get if I put in an X pipe on my single exhaust. Devon
OK, Lets talk about recycling. Our world is powered mainly by oil, correct? Oil is the de-composed remains of every substance our long removed ancestors left behind. Nature recycled it for us. Right behind oil is natural gas, correct? Natural gas is the gas created by the decomposition of the waste left behind from our long-removed ancestors. So by burning oil and natural gas, are we not in effect recycling/conserving? I'm not against researching new cleaner energy alternatives, I'm just against paying taxes on naturally-occuring waste products, and against paying more for something that by todays standards does not put 'pressure' on the environment, and all the associated hooplah.
