Hey big block guys, I have been over in the small block section getting good info on building my 350, we'll I tore it down and found the block was bad, so now I'm doing a 455. I had everything all figured out how I was going to build my 350, but now I need a little advice on the 455. My plans are 9.5:1 cr, with iron heads. My big question is what is a good cam choice for street driving, and what stall should I go with. I'm not opposed to getting rear gears either. My car is a 72 skylark custom. Also any other recommendations for a nice mild 455 build? I'm looking for a nice driver but if I stomp on it it will go.
My advise to you is to spend most of your budget on the lower end and the absoluter bare minimum on the heads to get the engine running. That way you can upgrade later to a nice set of aluminum heads that will out do even heavily ported cast irons in every way. These are nice pistons that will help to keep the block's deck thicker because the compression distance can be ordered taller if you need it to be; http://www.buyracingparts.com/pisto.../autotec-455-buick-forged-dished-pistons.html Here is what they say about these pistons; "AutoTec is a High Quality, Precision Manufactured piston option. That comes at a very respectable price. Our Design Specific Forging allows us to manufacture our parts with less machining time, thus allowing us to keep production cost down. Then pass that savings on to you, the customer. Made out of 4032 High Silicone Aluminum Alloy, it has great wear resistance, a low expansion rate, is very durable, and is very low in friction. These pistons accommodate multiple uses including. Your local auto shop, muscle car restorations, performance street rods, as well as many spec racing classes. They can also withstand mild nitrous kits and small turbo or super chargers. Just about everyone can benefit from the excellent value the AutoTec line carries. Keeping in mind these pistons were originally designed for about 600 Horsepower. In Small Block applications, we have customers that frequently fine tune engines that yield 850+ Horsepower with a bit of Super Charger boost. Bore, Ring Pack, and Compression Distance changes can be made to any shelf part at no extra charge. Meaning that if you do not see your application listed in the guide, we can make what you need without charging a custom price. Every part is made with same high quality machines and tools as our RaceTec line including diamond turned ring grooves, and skirts. Not to mention our parts are 100% made in the USA." These are great entry level forged pistons that the rings are included with the price. I believe that wristpin size can be changed as well but they might charge extra for that, not sure. With these pistons you can run a BBC rod and add .050" more stroke if you wanted or leave it standard. Using a longer BBC rod will make the pistons much lighter than the standard compression distance pistons. Here's an add for rods that are on sale; http://www.racingjunk.com/Rods/182529014/PROCOMP-RACE-RODS-I-BEAM-H-BEAM.html The 6.800" BBC $189 rods rated for 500+ HP are out of stock but they have the $299.00 6.800" BBC rods available that are rated for 800 HP. If you use a BBC rod they need to be either narrowed on the big end from .990" to .928" or your crank's rod journals will need to be widened to accommodate the thicker rods and you will need pistons with .200" less compression distance with the .200" longer rods. Not sure what your budget is so I'll stop writing here. GL Derek
I'm happy with what I did for the same goal. Parts list and discussion in this thread: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?257206-Piston-and-cam-choice-for-455-build I stayed with the stock torque converter. Could have gone higher but now that I've got the distributor set right it works OK. Getting the carb rebuilt and tuned next.
I'd like to keep the stock connecting rods, if possible. I don't have a huge budget, but I do know that I'm going to have to spend money on it to get it decent. GlenL thanks for the link, I'll read over it!
Well when you're on a tight budget if you take your time to get the engine done a bigger budget wouldn't hurt as much spread over more time. Plus that would give you time to shop the deals that come up in the for sale section here to stretch that budget even further to build something better. If you can get one of the (2) 455s running you could install that one and have the other to slowly collect parts to do it up. How bad are the engines you bought anyway? Does at least one of them spin with a socket and ratchet on it? Evaluate what you have before you spend one penny, can you post any pictures of what you bought? Derek
Call Scotty Brown for a cam. He will do a custom grind cam to match the rest of your build for under $200.00 http://www.buyracingparts.com/piston...d-pistons.html If you do not have stage 1 spec heads you can find a good used set here. Do not spend the money to convert a set though. I would stay away from the hyper pistons also. Get a good forged set so you don't have to worry about anything. I have wiseco reverse dome pistons and I like them. For rods you might want to consider something other than stock for the peace of mind. Get a TA timing cover and oil pump set up and do all the oil mods to the block. Hope this helps.
Yes one spins fine, it is missing the cam and intake I have the pushrods, lifters and rockers for it, but wasn't planning on using the lifters and pushrods since I'll be doing a new cam. It had a nice aluminum intake on it but he didnt want to throw that in with the deal unfortunatly. The other I bought is complete carb to oil pan. But I just got it for the valve covers, intake, exhaust manifolds, brackets, that sorta thing. I'm not sure if it spins over or not. I would guess not. Are the connecting rods that bad on the 455s? I'm not interested in getting one running and then building the other. I am wanting to build one nice running one then drop it in. The car isn't going to be driveable for a while anyway. My goal is to have a good running engine by the start of next summer, so here in SC that's early may-ish. So I have a good while to build this thing up nice a right! I can get 93 octane gas here, so my only must is that it run on 93 pump gas.
And I will also add, I will tear down the good engine and have the block checked before I buy any parts.
Just did a quick Google search about the stock rods, the problem seems to be that they don't have dowel pins, is that the reason why to ditch them? So if i go with BBC rods how exactly are the big ends narrowed? I can't figure that one out. I see how they could be widened by remove material, but I don't see how you can add material, unless I am reading somthing wrong here?
The BBB rod is .928" wide while the BBC rod is .990" wide. You can take .031" off of each side of the BBC rod or widen the crank journal .062" We narrowed a set of 6.8" BBC Compstar rods for a BBB turbo project. Jim Weise prefers to widen the crank journal for his 470 BBB crank and rod combination. He uses the BBC 6.8" rod and offset grinds the rod journal for and extra .050" on the stroke. Paul
That info helps. Not to sure about stock rods I try to never use factory production rods if I can help it. I have heard that it takes 2 sets of stocks 455 rods to get one good set though, maybe Paul or JW can chime in and elaborate further? I the link for the rods I posted a few posts back the 1,000 HP rods are available in the 7.100" length that would help immensely in lightening the rotating assembly because you can run a piston that is 1/2" shorter! The pistons I listed they will make the compression distance to your spec for no additional charge. Here is a comparison I can help you decide which rods you want to buy; If you have your stock rods reconditioned with ARP rod bolts that will cost around $260 for the bolts and labor to make an inferior rod useable. It would be a no brainer if the BBC 6.800" 500+ HP rods weren't out of stock because those were listed for $189.99! You could get the 6.535" BBC rods for $189.99 and order the AutoTec pistons with a bit extra compression distance? If you plan on just building a cruiser street/strip type car then the little bit extra weight won't really make that big of a difference with only an extra .065" which can be knocked down by .025" when the crank is stroked .050" going from the 2.250" BBB rod journal to the 2.200" BBC rod journal size. You will need to ask your machinist if the crank journals can be ground to the BBC rod width, if not you'll need to have the BBC rods narrowed to fit the BBB crank. This will be no problem running the BBC bearings because they are thinner than the BBC rod big end width and will fit without narrowing. Hold on, I'll look up the BBC bearing width for you. Ok the standard replacement BBC rod bearings are .892" wide and the BBC performance rod bearings are .865" wide. The BBC rod big end is .990" wide and the BBB needs to be .928" wide so if the material is removed equally off of both sides or so the bearing stays centered in the rod the BBC bearing should work with the BBB crank with BBC narrowed rods.(did you follow that?) For $189.99 still less than rebuilt factory rods even after they are narrowed because narrowing should only cost around $50 to machine. $189.99 + $50 = $239.99, $20.01 less than rebuilt factory rods that can actually cost more or a bit less depending on rod bolt cost and labor cost where you're at. The AutoTec pistons include premium high end rings as long as the bore size is one that is more common that has many different rings styles available for, that's why the 455 gets bored to 4.350" because of ring availability like the advertised AutoTec BBB 455 pistons are. So now you have pistons, rings, rods, can use BBC rod bearings, use BBB main bearings, either send out one of the stock balancers to be rebuilt or and aftermarket 455 balancer can get pricey, either reuse the factory flex plate if one of your engines came with a good one and have all those components balanced together and as soon as the block is done it will be ready for assembly. The oil mods are highly recommended for a BBB the directions for that is in one of the sticky threads in the street/strip 455 section. Don't waste your $$ upgrading the cast iron heads, have the minimum that they need done so you can upgrade to aluminum heads later or if you can find the funds in the budget order a set of Edelbrock heads from JW of Tri-Shield Buick in Minnesota, the owner of this site. The off the self assembled heads can have issues with them if you buy them from JW he goes through them making sure they're assembled the way they should be. At your level you'll probably be better off with an dual plane intake for better low end street drivability so there are a few choices, if you're going to stick with the cast iron heads you can stick with a factory intake as well. If you go ahead and get the Eddy heads then the stock cast iron intake on aluminum heads isn't the best setup but can be done. The better intakes would be the Edelbrock B4B or Performer or the TA dual plane Stage 1 I think the name is. Match your cam with the compression and gear ratio you have or want to end up with, then match your torque converter with what everything else ends up as and you should be good to be slammed back in your seat! This should be enough to read for now, don't hesitate to ask if you have a question. Derek
Actually the piston becomes shorter by double the decrease in CH because it is preferred to keep the wrist pin centered from top to bottom. Extra Bonus! Autotec piston on the left. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39382077/Ford six/300 piston 1.JPG One of the problems with the stock rod is it only has balancing pads on the rod beam instead of both ends making it a pain to balance. The machining quality is terrible making it necessary to have 2 sets in order to find 8 good rods. I've seen wrist pin holes off set so one side is very thin. Here is a cap that was machined so there is very little material behind and to the left of the black dot.
Probably a little off-topic but just how much stuff is compatible between 455 and 430 engines. I've had the 430 rebuilt to standard except for the exhaust valves which are Chevy stainless steel and that was only to cope with unleaded fuel. However, that was 15 years ago before the car put into storage. I now need timing cover, water pump and a few other bits and pieces. I understand all the alloy stuff at the front of the motor is the same as the 455's, correct?
I'm hoping a may be able to just do a hone and re use stock pistons and rods with new rings. Then pick a cam for my 9.5:1 cr. Also do new bearings and gaskets throughout, and run it and have a little fun with it. I don't think there is a need for me to do forged internals right now. Maybe in the future, but not now. I. Going to try disassemble the good 455 this evening.
Yes the engine "family" is 400/430/455 1967-1976 All pieces interchange, with some slight exceptions after 72.. Pistons and bore size are the only thing specific to the cubic inch. JW
Sounds fun.. I built a couple of those myself in my younger days to beat around on the street with. Key is to stay away from detonation, it will kill the stock pistons quickly. How successful the engine in depends entirely on how good the core is. The cylinder walls have to be NICE. I would recommend a cam with Intake durations in the 218-226 range(at .050 lift), to maximize your torque fun. Several good choices at TA Performance. Shift the motor at 5000 rpm, for long life. Just about out of power by then anyway. Have fun, and when your ready to build something wilder, we will be here. JW
Got the good 455 torn down today. Just by looking at it, it looks really good. Cylinders have a nice cross hatch still not glazed at all. I need to get my caliper out and make sure it hasn't been bored and rebuilt in the past. The pistons looked like the originals so I think it is an untouched block.
OH NO! If the bores still have cross hatch on them there was no need to disassemble the short block! You could of saved some $ getting that running. Oh well at least you know the bores should be good to just ball hone for a re-ring to re-use the pistons. Replacement pistons will look like the factory pistons you still need to know what size they are before you order rings, with the crank as well you need to measure the rod and main journals to make sure you get the right bearings. Don't go by the ones that came out they could be the wrong ones, you never seen the oil pressure while the engine was running. So are your plans to take the block to a machines shop to have it cleaned magna fluxed install new cam bearings and freeze plugs and have them hone the block? Or is this just an engine stand re-fresh? Short block refresh = replace rings and bearings just ball hone block clean and re-assemble. Short block rebuild = have block professionally cleaned down to clean cast iron, magna flux block to check for cracks, bore & hone block to new piston size, resurface the deck parallel to the mains at 45*, check main saddle for straightness line hone to correct if its out, install cam bearing and freeze plugs, balance rotating assembly with the new pistons, possible have them do the oil mods if that's something you can't do yourself, if this is something you can do it should be done before its dropped off so all the chips are professionally cleaned out before the final cleaning that you'll need to do. After all this now its ready to re-assemble. GL Derek
A couple of the bores had some very slight surface rust so I decided to go ahead and disassemble the short block that way I could at least ball hone it. At this point what I think I'm going to do is take it to my machine shop and have them clean it and magna Flux it just for peace of mind since I've never heared the motor run. Then have them verify if I can stay with stock size pistons. Theb if I can stay stock pistons I may get new pistons with a smaller dish to raise the compression. I still need to run some numbers to see exactly what I need to do to get to the 9.5:1 cr. The heads looked a little more rough, several exhaust bolts are broken off in them, and also some of the valves had a lot and I mean a lot of carbon build up. I wish I could post pictures but I can't do it from my phone.
