I am not sure of your back ground with buicks but I totally agree that in a perfect world your right about how the cooling system should work but some BBB's are prone to heating issue's. I have seen JW post the same as what I have been telling you guys including crutching a coolant system with a 160* t-stat to give it a bit of a head start. If you haven't seen this problem before you haven't worked on enough of buicks. As far as the 160 t-stat being "useless" I can't I can't disagree with you more. I would love it if Duke would test the two aluminum rads against each other to see what the inlet and out let temps are by use a infrared thermal gun. Personally I think the best rad choice is the one Bob posted. ---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 PM ---------- Something else I wanted to point out. When use aluminum rads you should either buy a rod of zinc that screws in to the drain plug or you can go to a boat place and get a chunk of zinc that you can drop down the rad tank/filler hole so it sits at the bottom of the tank so that it gives the minerals in the coolant something to attack rather than corroding the radiator, heater core or engine block. The different metals in a coolant system can also cause issues.
Its very clear to me that all you are focused on is the 160* The answer to your question is NO, the 160* stat can't do its job because of the system being under driven and a fan problem.If you could see past the 160* stat and why it is being used in this case over a 180* stat we would be at least in the same book. Here is one of several things I don't agree with you on. "The coolant needs time in the radiator to shed its heat to the surrounding air" and you are kinda correct in thinking that. IF it moves to slow through the rad by being under driven this also means the coolant is moving too slow through the engine causing the coolant temp as it hits the rad to be way hotter. I am and have been saying all along that once he gets the correct factory pulley back on his engine and a correct fan and position he most likely won't need to crutch it with the 160* stat, but there is also that chance he might end up with a helper fan. I have also seen several people drill several holes around the out side of t-stat for more flow and it resolved the problem. I use the small WP pulley's on everthing I can with great results. They came on alot of 69 400 cars that were non AC, buick I believe offered it as a HD cooling option. From there they are used on all AC cars. But what do I know ou: Duke will not have the crank pulley until he gets to the car show this weekend he also needs a correct fan. With the system being under driven if he used a 180 stat it won't open until 185+ this would be incredible if it would stay in that range but it can't because of being under driven and a crappy fan SO the 160 opens 20* gives the system a 20* head start. This allows Duke to enjoy his car until he gets the parts to fix it after a 1 1/2 year wait to drive it instead of it sitting in his garage spread all over his work bench. But hey what do I know ou: This is why I pm people instead posting ou: Duke, I am sorry for hi jacking your thread.
Update I left home on Friday morning bound for the Good Guys event in Puyallup , WA. It was in the mid 60s and I travelled with some friends in another car. The temp gauge came up to 175 - 180 and stayed there as we ran up 5 at about 70 - 75. 1 bathroom / gas stop just short of 1/2 way. The outside temp was climbing and on the uphills the engine temp went up to about 185 but dropped back on the flats and downhills. As I pulled into Puyallup after about 140 miles the air temp was at 80+ and the coolant was running 185+. Pulled in and parked with no issues. Probably helped that my rpm was 2000 to 2300. I think I like this 5 speed! Met with the guy who brought me the correct crank pulley also. Will get that on next week. More later on the return trip. Having fun with a Buick and going fast with class!
Good Morning Isn't time to move onto waterless coolant and while it is expensive it will solve most of your cooling issues, (boiling point 375 degrees and freezing point is minus 40 degrees) and give the engine more protection from corrosion? Take care John
Since it is a relatively new engine build with few miles on it, does it stand to reason that it might run hot for a little while? Of course, getting to temperature in 2-3 minutes sounds really fast. It sounds like you have done just about everything to keep your engine cool. Perhaps now it is time to add and additive to your coolant such as Water Wetter or 40 Below? I struggled with heat too but did pretty much what you have done. Good luck! Dave
WOW! Your avatar pic does no justice for your car Duke, its beautiful! And look at this poor little SBB sitting off in a corner next to the concession stand:grin:
Chris That little small block car in the corner is from Canada. Belongs to some guy named Cole. Nice car / nice guy! Known him for a long time but met him this weekend. George That was the way the fenders were when I got the car. It grew on me and I didn't change them when I fixed the body and paint. I also took a few other liberties - no trunk lid wide trim, just a small chrome strip - custom hand painted logo on the lid - 3 hand painted side stripes with silver leaf insert on the sides and a few other things. I never intended it to be stock - I'm a hotrodder and this car reflects that if looked at closely. I returned home yesterday morning in overcast, cool weather with no heating issues. Over 350 miles with no problem if I kept it moving. If I got into traffic which I did cruising the show grounds then it went up pretty fast. I did get the correct crank pulley while there and will get it installed this week. Then we will see how it is.
I was the go between on that very nice little 68GS a million years ago, I just like to poke fun at Cole about the small block. :laugh: A true long time Buick guy
Installed original crank pulley this afternoon. Now I have both the original crank & water pump pulleys installed. Took it out for a run. About 85 here today. It ran under 195 on the gauge while I was moving. If I got into traffic it ran up to about 210. Still hotter than I like.
With all the vehicles i have worked on in shops and of my own the biggest problem i have ever dealt with was radiators. Air problems and bad radiator caps are quite common but rarely have i ever had to change pulley sizes, fans or even clutches to cure an overheat issue. I have even driven vehicle before with no belts and had no overheat issue just for the mere fact the air flow through the radiator would spin the fan and turn the water pump. If this vehicle is cooling properly going down the road but is getting hot at slow speeds or sitting still then obviously the radiator size is a problem. An electric fan to help move air can help but most likely will not cure it. If you are are running a new 4 core brass radiator then you may need to look at other alternatives. A friend of mine had a similar problem as this with his lifted Ford Ranger. He had a stout 351W built for the truck and had a custom aluminum radiator built for it. Overheated since day one. He tried various fans, pulleys, mounted electric fans and it still overheated. The cure? A small brass radiator for a Honda generator mounted to the passenger fender that he plumbed into the heater hoses with a small electric fan on that. Truck never ran hot again. He could sit and idle in traffic on a hot summer day with no issues.
Do you think by speeding up the water pump with the correct pulley helped? I question if those thin fan blades aren't flattening out as rpm builds, I realize that with the OD your not building much RPM but it doesn't take much for the blades to lay down. If its the fan I am thinking it is that is common with those. Your stuck with the lack of rad surface area so you need to maximize the air flow through it which will require a good clutch fan and correct placement in the fan shroud. Some 67 owners have found that adding a electric fan helps also but regardless you should get the fan and shroud sorted out.
With out going all the way back through the thread, your timing cover behind the water pump is in good shape right? If it's too corroded it won't move water very efficiently. I'm still of the opinion it's either a fuel/spark tune issue or a fan/shroud issue (or there is no hope if both are off!). The thermostat is supposed to set the minimum temperature and the radiator the maximum. If the radiator is up to snuff with the thermostat removed the maximum temperature should be below 160*F on an average temperature day, which says the thermostat is in control of your engine temperature. I know the few times I've had a thermostat stick open on me my cars didn't get over 130*F, even in southern California heat. Any cooling systems engineer will tell you, short of cavitation, speed is a cooling systems best friend. Faster the coolant moves through the heat source and the radiator the more heat will be transferred out of the heat source, likewise obviously on the radiator and air interaction, more air the better. I just got home from Cannon Beach, OR last night. ~1,700 miles round trip and was in the 90's through most of eastern Oregon and Idaho. The car never saw over 189*F, 180* rated thermostat, even on the mountain grades or fast food drive through (which took too freakin long...). Driving to work this morning, the temps were in the low 60's, and I noted the coolant warmed up about a degree a second until around 170*F when the increase rate declined, which I'm guessing is the point the thermostat just started to crack open.
As a point of info - this weekend at the BPG Nats Denny Manner was asked "what is too hot for our engines" He responded that a stock 455 was run for hundreds of hours on the dyno at 4500 rpm and @ 240* .. as long as your motor is not puking coolant it is fine
*As long as it's not pinging or puking coolant it'll be fine. That goes for any engine, at least in the short term. Dino oils don't like those temps for very long. I used to run my old 231 V6 at well over 240*F climbing the big hill outside Baker, CA in 115*F days, at WOT for like ten minutes. It never pinged and it cooled down quickly on the back side. NASCAR guys run engines hot too. Personally I go for the hottest thermostat I can reliably run. Low compression stuff gets 195*F ones and higher compression ones get 180*F ones. Better for the oil, better for the bores, better for fuel economy.
