Bob Nothing to report yet. I got a new 2 row Griffin Circle Track rad from Summit. Good price and it is 1.25 dual row. It s also bigger than the Chinesium one. I originally ordered a high out put water pump and over drive alum. Pulley from TA. It showed up and was not correct - nothing as far as belts lined up. Called them and was told I needed the long snout version. Got it last night after I returned from a week long business trip. It also is not correct. Don't know what I have as far as the alt and power steering goes but I will go back to the original pump and pulley that were on the engine. Expensive - $100+ in shipping and handling to find out that my pump and pulley are neither long or short. But the pulley number I have does match to the engine according to what I found. Will be putting everything back together this weekend with new rad, new cap, 160 thermostat and old pump. Will see how it works. Could have done this last weekend instead of waiting for a pump that doesn't fit. More later.ou:
I think there are some good points that stand out here. I am not a big fan of the flex fans. I had a cooling issue that was fixed with putting the original correct spacer on the pulley, original 4 blade fan and the correct shroud. The flex fan setup that was with the car when I bought it was too far from the radiator, had no shroud (from the factory I guess) and a single core radiator. I started by putting an electric fan on it and that kicked on and off fine and got me by. It was just dangerous not having a shroud on there. I ended up keeping the radiator and electric fan on it, put a factory 4 blade with a spacer that still clears the electric, and a 180 thermostat. Now it never goes over 190. One thing I will add that I didn't see on here was that if you have had the engine bored out a lot, they tend to run warmer??? I've read you need a little faster flow to compensate. I highly doubt a head gasket is the issue. Higher flow rate (smaller pulley????) working thermostat, and correct fan blade distance from the radiator would be the first things I would check. My 2 cents.
Again, thanks to all for your input and ideas. This is what is great about this forum. Everyone trying to help out. What is the recommended distance between a radiator and fan?
I don't think its the distance that matters. Look at a first gen monte carlo, shroud is about a foot long. I think I remember reading that half of the thickness of the fan should be sticking into the shroud.
the fan usually has to be half into the shroud and the other half out showing just like the pic in the above post.
I will let Duke fill you guys in but It looks like things are good. Typical BBB air lock, incorrect crank pulley (way to small) and a couple other things that got fix up in the process.It sound like he had a big grin on his face while out enjoying his car today.
Again - thanks to all!!!:laugh::laugh: New Griffin radiator - circle track version. New TA high flow water pump. New shroud. New 160 thermostat & 16 lbs cap Much more realistic temps. 10 minutes of idle with just water in the system = 190. Got out and ran it on an 80 degree day and it ran up to 210 on city streets but once moving about 45 it started to come down. On the freeway at 60 - 65 it dropped to 180-185. Not perfect but I feel much more comfortable driving it. I put about 30 miles - mostly highway but some city streets and it stayed respectable. Will be doing more in the future - but now I can drive a car I have owned for over 1.5 years and only put 200 miles on. Plan to get it out and do what I bought / built it for - to drive & enjoy. :beer:beer on me!! Come to my neck of the woods & the first is on me for all the suggestions & help! ---------- Post added at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 PM ---------- Forgot to add: NICE CHINESIUM RADIATOR FOR SALE!!!:Brow: Almost new! Barely used 3 row aluminum core. Price negotiable - the ride is all yours! Pictures on request.
Are you going to the car show next weekend? I know someone that is going that most likely can bring you a pulley. Goodguys 26th Pacific Northwest Nationals Friday, Jul 26 10:00a to 5:00p More dates & times (2) Washington State Fair Events Center Puyallup, WA The hottest vintage cars in the West & Canada return to the Goodguys 26th Pacific Northwest Nationals! A giant show & shine, Friday Night Drags @ Pacific Raceways and the All American Sunday for late model American made & American powered cars on Sunday July, 28th will be featured! See over 2,500 72 & earlier rods, customs, muscle cars, trucks & classics, plus vendor exhibits, swap meet & car corral, live music, model car show, indoor car show and so much more! If you dig old cars this is it! Read more here: http://calendar.thenewstribune.com/...6th-pacific-northwest-nationals#storylink=cpy
Yes, Chris That is my plan. If you know someone who is going and has that crank pulley I need - send it. I will start buying the beers right there!
Once we get you into the correct crank pulley so it speeds up the water pump and get a good fan installed the temps should come down yet again. I know this is a bit of work but would you be up to putting the other rad back in to see how it effects the temps? I know some of you guys don't like the 160 t-stat but this is a great example of having to give the cooling system a head start.
Chris Not going to have the time to change the rad back. Plan to put antifreeze in this week and go to Puyallup on the weekend. It is a major pain to swap the rad in & out as well as messy.
Hey Duke it sounds like things are getting better. Get some miles on that puppy and I think it will get even better. Have fun at Goodguys. Bob H.
A 160 stat will be wide open at 180*, a 180* stat will be wide open at 200* Any thermostat will be a restriction to coolant flow as opposed to having no stat at all, so I never bought the argument that the water is moving through the radiator too quickly. The TA high flow pumps move even more coolant, so according to that theory, higher temps should be the result of installing one of those pumps. His crank pulley is too small, so if anything, coolant is travelling slower because the pump is spinning slower. A good cooling system should keep the coolant temps within 5* of the stat rating, and the temps should never be more than 100* above ambient temperature if everything is right. Just MHO.
If you have a look around the board here? It seems that on any given day there is a small hand full of BBB guys posting about there over heating problems and it doesn't matter if its a big Wildcat, 68 to 72 GS or a 67. The 67 is the worse off because it has a smaller rad then all the other cars and that means that it has less coolant capacity and less surface area. Even with a 4 core rad it can still ba a challenge on hot days to keep the temps in check. I remember very clearly back in the 70's and 80's driving around town in one of many buicks that my parents owned and hearing the crackling sounds coming from under the hood as we waited for a tow truck to take us home so Dad could pull the heads for resurfacing and new head gaskets, there was no Felpro blues back then If I remember correctly it was .020 factory steel shims or Mccord composites that were .028???? Are BBB's have very thin cylinder walls and blocks and also is lacking in cylinder head bolts. All you can do is verify the rad, heater core, t-stat etc. Are buicks/engines were not created equal when it comes to cooling systems. Dukes 67 is no exception, Instead of posting what I thought was wrong I contacted Duke and went over what I felt was causing the quick to heat up problem. If the coolant can't flow through the bypass hose and or the heater core/lines when the t-stat is close on start up because of a air lock there is next to no movement in coolant and this is what happened in Dukes case no coolant flow=fast to heat up and over heat. Duke still has a problem with the WP being under driven a lot with the small crank pulley he has so until we get the matching crank pulley what he has fix so far has allowed him to enjoy his car finally after a 1.5 year project. The purpose of the 160 t-stat is to give the cooling system a head start, some engines that I have built have gone into cars that no matter what you do you are fighting the high operating temps. I also have had some I can put a 180 stat in and the temp even on the hottest day will stay between 185-195. Its not just about timing, rads and t-stats. Pulleys and water pumps get over looked far to often. When installing a t-stat drill a small hole in the t-stat and install it so the hole is at the top and that should eliminate air lock. For me its hard to diagnose over a computer so that is why I contacted Duke and requested a pic and back ground on his project over the phone and I soon could eliminate things like timing etc because like Duke posted earlier the fellow that checked the timing knows his way around Buicks. After spending most of my life around these buicks I am only going by what I have seen and learned. Personally have owned most likely 75+ buicks and worked on countless others. A lot of times things just don't work on are buicks like they do on other cars. When on the net we have to be careful not to lead people in the wrong direction so not to cost them a bunch of money replacing parts that don't need to be replaced but at the end of the day everyone is just trying to help each other and that is what makes V8buick and buick guys cool to be around!
Agreed, something is wrong, but it isn't because the coolant is running through the radiator too fast. If anything, it may be the opposite due to crank pulley size.
Chris, i have had a number of 65-67 Buicks with hot 455 engines and always use the stock small block pulleys to underdrive the cooling system accessories and save a few hp. I have never had an over heating issue and i am in the same region as Duke, I even had a couple cars in Montana which is much hotter than the west coast and still no issues. I always run a good copper and breass 4 row radiator and a shroud and it seems to work for me.. just my 2 cents on the issue. Bob
Guys, what do you think fixed the problem Duke had with the rapid heat problem? The new rad didn't fix that, it was air locked. Most of you guys know the reason for sonic testing cylinder walls, some also left the factory with large WP pulleys. Some times its timing or a lean carb, but no matter what you fix the things that you know are wrong first before you start pulling a engine. Sorry but I want things back the way they should be ie: correct pulleys, belt arrangement, proper fan that the blades won't flatten out as RPM builds, fan placed in the proper location to work with the shroud the way ALL car company's engineered them to work. I don't know what else to say that I haven't already said other then opening a t-stat up earlier is NOT going to make the coolant go to fast through the system and that is a fact. The center of the t-stat is a reduced hole that restricts the coolant flow (slows it down) pull out the t-stat and see what happens, the coolant goes to fast and won't cool things down. I guess we will have to wait until he removes the small aftermarket pulley and puts the factory pulley back on the crank and gets a proper fan installed with the correct depth then if the car runs to cool he can change the t-stat.
