Continuing with Wilson's problematic 72 Skylark

So you never checked timing
Interesting

 

Can't check timing when intake and carb are off.

 

You think that up all by yourself?
Read the thread.
He never checked it from beginning
Yet made all these changes
Maybe it's not the problem
But maybe it is
Entertaining regardless how you read into it

 

Oh wait
It's your car
Lol

 

And sarcasm is a 2nd language to me. No reason to become a dick on the board. People come on here to get information, not to be belittled.

Timing was verified by original owner along with other things. If you read the link to his post, you would see he was at his wits end.

Barring his findings, I did not verify timing because I wanted to go through the motor to verify all the expensive components were sound. May be the wrong way for some, but that's what I choose to do when I buy someone else's car that had issues mentioned.

Leave the sarcasm to someone else's post.

 

Sarcasm? Lol
You should read your words and take notes on your findings
I come on this board to learn about buicks and help some others
You jumped the shark to change carbs n intakes without verifying others findings
This is quite entertaining to me and many others who don't post or at least not here
Or who did and told you to verify findings
One thing I'll tell you is 2 timing lights can give to different findings
That's it
Carry on
Good luck regardless as I hope you find performance you are looking for.
Your name calling is funny
Been called worse by lesser individuals
And some better too smile
And get your car right

 

So, you're telling me that you weren't being sarcastic?
People who ask for help on things shouldn't be belittled because they don't do things the same way others do.
I didn't change intakes and changing the carb was solidified by folks on this board regardless if the other one was the culprit or not.
I have been listening to the people on here who are not quick to throw negative comments. This isn't my 1st pair of steel toe boots but it is my 1st BBB I ever worked on. That's why I came on here to ask questions; from experts who give useful information. I am not sure where your seeing the disconnect of me not listening to folks on here.

Not calling anyone names; just stating the obvious as your comments were increasingly becoming "dick-ish".
I appreciate your input just as much as others if the negativity doesn't follow it.

I said my peace. Thanks.

 

Larry,

I am as well. I ran into some things over the weekend and didn't get a chance to mess around with the car. I know the motor really isn't worked and has your standard stall converter and gear in rearend.

I don't have any documentation from Mike @ Wildcat Performance. The original owner had Richard Lesseter manage his build. Richard provided him with documentation stating what Mike did. Attached is what I have in terms of paperwork.

I sent Mike a message but never heard anything back. Motor was build sometime in 2005.

 

That is nice that Jim gives all the build information. I am fortunate that if I have my local guy do any work for me, he supplies me with the all the information.

I agree Larry. I am not sure if Mike ever told the original owner what the calculated ratio was or if he ever did a SC test. I don't think the motor was bored. It has 71 (1237661 71cc) heads on it; but I'm not sure if they were decked or not.

When I pulled the intake, as you know, it had TA performance intake gaskets on it. They were the .032" thick gaskets so I would assume that the heads may have been machined just to square them up. When I pulled the intake, I took a look around all the sealing surfaces and didn't notice any voids. The water jackets were the only ports that had any type of silicone. Usually, if I use a gasket that doesn't have the sealing material built in (like felpro does) I usually put a thin coat of RTY on every sealing surface. Never had an intake leak on me doing that. But, this is a BBB and I am not sure if that is feasible to do or not on these motors. I know that original owner said that vacuum @ idle was like 12" or so; way low for a TA 212 cam.

Part of me even wonders if I should pull the front timing cover and verify chain slack. Make sure its not excessive. Mike did degree the cam in though; which is stopping me from verifying that.

Definitely the plan here soon Larry. I am planning on getting intake on (ordered gaskets from TA, should be here today), getting carb on, firing up the ole girl and dialing in the timing. I know stock initial is 4 BTDC but also know that's with the stock distributor. I am planning on using your power timing process to get her dialed in.

From what I can tell, the distributor already has the vacuum advance mod on it. not sure what springs are in it but again, this car ran for a little while and then started going downhill.

Lot of work ahead of me. Just got to get around to it; while building my 62 Skylark and working on side jobs with customer cars.

I appreciate all the help Larry. Your a good man!

 

NICE!!!!

Amazing how initial timing becomes meaningless on motors like this. I guess they just picked a number in the middle for initial timing due to all the inconsistencies in the distributor component tolerances.

I will definitely do what you recommend. I know my HEI has 2 different springs on it now. Not sure RPM wise when mechanical advance is fully engaged with those springs but I will shoot to get it in @ 2500 RPMs. Does the mechanical advance degree vary from HEI distributor cast number like is does on the original point dizzys? I have the Dizzy number but couldn't find any information on it.

Dizzy casting is : 1112990 6F19


Thanks Larry!

Chris

 

Ok, so if I install the lightest springs in the dizzy. Leave the initial timing at whatever it is. Then, kick up RPMs and see what total advance is. Dial that in to the 32-34 degrees by restricting the vacuum advance rod in concert with changing out mechanical advance springs to verify full MA @ 2500 rpms...?

Sound correct?

 

Ahh yes. Got a little confused there. My apologies. At what RPM should I expect to have the lightest springs reflect the full mechanical advance? So there is really no "sweet spot" to have initial timing to start at? If I am not mistaken, the original owner said that he advanced the initial timing 10 degrees just to keep the car running. not sure where his baseline was before advancing. If I had to guess, if he advanced it that much, initial timing may be sitting @ like 14 degrees if he used a BL of 4 degrees. Am I reading too much into initial timing? I'm spoiled with the fact that most cars I am building have timing tables programmed via burned processor or flashed into the ECU.

As far as curve springs, Crane springs are the best kit to get then?

 

I have used the lightest springs to check advance and they actually bump a little advance in at idle. I would say probably full advance on mine was about 1500-1800. They come with charts for the springs but they are not that great usually. I used Mr. Gasket with one light and one medium.

 

Chris--

Like Larry said forget the term "initial timing", it's useless to someone looking for peak performance. You only need to be concerned with two things at 1st.

#1 -- 2500 RPMS
#2 -- 30-34* w/o vac advance hooked up

You want 30-34* degrees @ ( or before in some cases ) 2500 rpms -- if the advance keeps going up after 2500 rpms then you need to get lighter springs so it stops. Once you set to 30-34* @ 2500 rpms and tighten the holddown, recheck your timing and see where it sits. As long as it's around 10-16* you shouldn't need any start retard but if you find it's 20* + you might run into startup problems especially when warm -- that's when you either break the bank for a new dizzy or purchase a ignition box or other add on that allows you to retard the timing during cranking ( usually retards about 10* ).

Hope that helps...

BTW please be sure to chock in front of atleast one wheel, wear safety glasses, and keep your arms away from the fan ( if mechanical ) while messing with the timing -- it's not in the best of places and can be a bit intimidating hanging over it while buzzing at 2500 rpms

Good luck homey - you know Im rooting for ya!