Very true, but companies dont admit it. The older workforce has a better work ethic The companies listed above cast the cam blanks correct? Then other companies actually grind the profiles, Comp, Schnieder, Lunati, etc?
Very true, but companies dont admit it. The older workforce has a better work ethic The companies listed above cast the cam blanks correct? Then other companies actually grind the profiles, Comp, Schnieder, Lunati, etc?
Those companies supply finished camshafts ready for assembly. What we call "blanks"? Those suppliers are relatively few, CWC is the only one I know of based on experience. They may be the ONLY source, but I don't know. OEMs may still be doing their own as well, but my experience there isn't recent. I was in Ford's Cleveland Engine Plant in Ohio in the late '90s for fuel system stuff and got to see their pristine automated camshaft production process, right next door to the other nasty, greasy engine line of yesteryear which was being dismantled. That was an amazing sight, the comparison between old & new! With all of this, supply & demand reigns King. I am not at all surprised that production of aftermarket stuff is last on the list of things to do right now. Devon
Devon, I know CMC (Camshaft Machine Company) in Jackson MI made the latest version of the TA steel roller cores.. do they not do cast cams? Website just talks about ugl production, but I thought cam machine was one of the big oem suppliers of cast cams.. I know they have been around since the 40's.. In related news, if your following this your probably either waiting on a cam core, or thinking about it.. I just heard from Mike at TA, in regards to the roller cam cores.. Good news is that he is now working with a new supplier, and is now going back to the 8620 cores, like the ones Crane used to make for us. Bad news is... No definite time frame has been offered to him to have product, that has pretty much become the industry norm now.. nobody wants to promise anything.. because they all are reliant some way or another on someone else, and the supply chain is such that everyone is behind. He did say they mentioned that they were 17 weeks behind on orders. I also heard from him earlier that no cam grinding company had received a cast Buick BB core in well over a year. I am afraid that it may be that long, or longer before anyone sees a blank cast iron core again. Don't shoot the messenger..
Nevermind Devon.. answered my own question.. just opened their core catalog, and this was one of the first things I saw.. Camshaft Machine Company has manufactured camshafts since 1942. We specialize in both cast and steel semi-finished(UGL's) camshaft cores for the entire performance industry. Many of today's "performance" cam companies rely on Camshaft Machine Company cores for the development of their individual high performance finished grinds. So... being the curious guy I am, and sitting here eating lunch, I called CMC... they don't cast the cores.. they buy them and semi finish them... also I was told that they are in production right now on the Buick 455 flat tappet cast cams, and it should not be "too long" before they are available again. The Saleswoman I spoke with told me that she had several orders in the works right now, for a few different camshaft vendors. So that is good news.. JW
So, being that I know nothing about this, is a core just a cylindrical rod of pre-measured length and diameter? Or does it already have machine work done to it?
I won't say it machined.....cast cams are formed per say to be able to work with a duration and lift range I have seen cam cores where there was no "pre lobe" shape..........they have a compete round disk in the location that lines up with that lifter..........these allow any range of duration or even firing order swaps.....
Yes the lobes are meant to be machined to final spec, but the rest of the cam core is machined, distributor drive gear (if integral), fuel pump eccentric, bearing surfaces, and other parts.
Hey Jim do you know the pros or cons to the steel roller blank cores compared to the 8620 stuff ? I could never get much of an answer
We should be able to get tool steel quicker,more money better quality.better then waiting 6 months or more most likely.I purchased one of the last TA hydraulic rollers so I don’t need one right now
Thanks Jim!! Well that's what I was hoping to hear. Guess that means I'll have to get back to working on my Skylark so it's ready once the cams start rolling in. Larry
The pro's of tool steel (TA used AISI 1050) are it at least starts out with higher yield & shear strengths (before being heat treated) and it can be induction hardened while AISI 8620 is limited to being carburized. Because of the greater hardened depth, 1050 allows for a wider variety of camshafts to be machined from the same core. A con, so it seems, is that it's not as readily available as 8620. The final strength and hardness numbers are reliant on the heat treat "recipe" (e.g. temps, time at temps, etc.). I'm willing to bet one beer that the resultant material properties of both steels are pretty similar with the edge going to 1050.
That's cuz no one does a 350 I got a solid cam and it took 2 months to get it. I got 2 old cams and 2 sets of lifters laying around I guess I could get one of those old ones reground if need to but age is creeping in and haven't put the new one in yet. .
I've got 4 or 5 used 350 cams on my bench is various states of condition, 310's, 413's, 290-94, a Kenne Bell Mark II, an original Turbo 3.8 cam, and a Lunati GSCA cam, guess Im crazy too for holding onto 350 Buick stuff, but its "my stuff"
LOL, I hear yah, thats why I dont excercise, it wears your body out Plus I still wanna stop in and visit yah, maybe this spring We could go to Summit Racing and look at all the Chevy stuff!
All roller cam cores are some form of hardened steel alloy.. flat tappets generally are cast iron.. In practice, the 1050 was much more likely to have wheel tracking or other issues in high spring pressure environments, than we ever experienced with the 8620 cams of the past. I had several well used 8620 cores, that were all in big spring pressure race motors, that barely looked touched. 1050 was good as long as you did not grind thru the heat treat.. TA eventually made three different core sizes, so one could more closely match the lift of the cam to the size of the hardened lobes. AS far as Tool Steel, there are a number of different alloys out there. They are used in severe environments. Super high lift solid roller cams, with big spring pressures (800psi or more open) I had crane make me 3 tool steel 54MM cores back in 2012.. these were real buick type cams with an integral flange.. many of you may not realize that the flange was actually pressed onto the TA roller cams, and then secured by roll pins.. This saves a lot of machine time, as it allows you to start with a smaller blank With an integral flange they started out as 3.5"or 4 inch spools, and that is a lot of machine time, and expense.. Those 3 cores took 18 months to get, and cost just shy of $1300 each, for the finished camshafts. JW
Cody Gamble made my 54 mm cam and I believe he still making them. Mine was finished in A few months and that included having it finish ground by bullet. I have it for sale if anyone’s interested.
So some say 1050 steel being higher carbon content is harder than 8620 ..but more prefer the 8620 ? ..does it all come down to the heat treat operation...
