Jim, Yeah they faultered a bit on the CC of the pistons. And the mention of the oil pump gears sticking out of the pump cavity by .010" so they milled them down was weird. But an effort we rarely see from any of the magazines which chooses to cover our oddball Buicks needs to be encouraged. We shouldn't pander to the writers and just take what we can get of course, but it behooves us all to have them in our corner. I admit I like driving a car that people recognize as being a pretty hot ticket. Decking the block to get zero deck would bring a whole new set of obstacles to the table (as you stated) and we need to remember it isn't intended to be the technical article to end all concerning our Buicks. They're just grabbing a junkyard engine and seein' what kind of power can be had with it, with the least amount of time and stress and expense involved. So readers looking for an alternative can have something to go from. I'd rather see them use a different piston with revised pin height to get a better quench for the test and all future tests. Maybe this article is a stepping stone for better things to come. With a little positive feedback maybe they'll decide to do a few more Buick articles or an article on one of Bruce's or Ollie's engines/cars, since they're in CC's backyard. Knowone can ever fault Bruces easy going demeanor, wealth of knowledge and ability to get some serious numbers out of these engines. And imagine what kind of impression Ollie would have on those CC guys. :laugh: (ya have to meet Ollie to appreciate him!) I remember back in the mid 80's when Jeff Smith (CC Senior Tech Editor) was more than skeptical about the performance capabilities of our Buicks when we were talking about it at the Shelby Proving Grounds during the Real Street Eliminator contest. He was too polite to call BS but we could tell what he was thinking. So lets "Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick" into this thing and see what comes of it.
Dave, I totally agree we should be glad we are getting coverage and shouldnt pick the article to death or their methods- results....any ink is good ink for us Buick guys as we are the red headed step child of the car community . This is all great info they are providing. Regarding oiling I totally love these cars as much as the next guy but you can pick through alot of articles on this site and find cam bearing,low pressure,rod,cam failures all over the place ...these problems can be found on other sites too with other brands to some extent AND I am not saying the Buick oiling system is a total failure. What I am saying is that it appears to me the BBB in a performance application is a really finicky beast and extra special attention must be paid to clearances , pieces chosen ,depth of pieces installed etc. etc. As an example look at all the bandaid pieces and issues made for the BBB and the Buick oiling system ,distributor oiler,rear galley bypass rig,grooved bearings,wear plates,oil pump clearance gasket sets , high vol kits, different relief springs, guys cutting saddles in the blocks years ago, drilling out the block passages,massaging the oil pumps, the pickup size being changed by Buick. Then apparently hardware issues -core shift ,galleys cracking, necessary halos,hardblock filling, thin cylinders,cooling issues and the like etc. Nobody wants to admit they have an ugly baby .... "I think" the Buick may "border" on being that only the most skilled ,experienced builders like yourself , the Jims, and alot of other seasoned guys on here , know what exactly to do to properly put one together and have it last and are rewarded with stunning performance. A regular joe in his garage appears to me to be a crap shoot alot of times regarding new builds. Fault tolerance is part of any design and I think maybe Buick could have done a little better job in that end of the design. Again I am a huge Buick fan and have taken the bumps and bruises with others and have not "thrown a Chevy in it" and just been done with it. We all know what these engines are capable of - we are all commited to the brand as evidenced that we pay through the nose for parts to build these engines by choice. It just appears tough sometimes to get it all together just right. I totally respect differing opinions and always look forward to your posts . I am sure this will open the floodgates for some healthy debate. Regarding the article what would be really cool would be to let them finish their article..have Jim approach them with what they did wrong and the redyno after Jim tells them the right way to do things to see the improvements. J
Dave, Ya, I guess I am just frustrated that now, for the second time, CC can't get the piston dish volume of that TRW L2353 correct.. the 455 shootout article from 03 lists that same piston as 31.5 cc, and lists that engine at 10.13 compression, when it was more like 10.7.. But let's hold off final judgment till they complete the series. And it's not my intent to criticize them, that's why I didn't mention the oil pump thing, and went out of my way to defend them in my first post on this thread. It was merely my intent to add to the conversation 2 things: 1. the engine has higher compression that stated 2. It's my opinion that this whole test is really about pushing a new sponsor's product. But in reality, that's what they do, and it's not a bad thing, as long as they are knowledgable and complete in the process. They don't have to re-invent the wheel to obtain all the info they need to write a good article, and compare products. Just pick up the phone to several buick vendors and builders, and assimilate that information into the article. But Dave, we differ on one point.. I like it when I pull up next to some guy, and he looks at my car with that smug "I am driving the king of musclecars" look from the seat of his SS454 Chevelle.. It makes what follows just that much more satisfying. :grin: JW
I wrote Car Craft this am and made them aware of the article discrepancies and told them to make a few phone calls to get the facts straight. Lets see if they respond ...I also thanked them profusely for the Buick coverage and said we are all looking forward to next months installment. J
I'm wondering why they didn't CC the block with the piston at TDC and get the real CC of the chamber instead of calculating it with the deck height numbers. I always do a final measurement when putting an engine together. Then they would've gotten closer to the true compression and maybe picked up on the incorrect numbers for the piston cc. I liked the comment about how Edelbrock should come up with a Performer RPM intake for the Buick. A RPM Air Gap would be even better. I could never figure out how somebody sat down at Edelbrock and decided that aluminum heads would be worth making for the 455 and yet nobody ever said maybe we should try to step up with a better intake manifold than the 35 year old design we have now to compliment it. I would think they should have done the intake first to see how they sell and then do the heads. Intakes would have to sell 20:1 compared to heads and with a lot less R&D and manufacturing costs. This article did show that without the right combo and associated equipment(gears, converter and such)overcamming your engine is much easier to do than most people think especially with stock type heads. Basically it is better to go with a smaller cam for the milder setups and get a winner rather than shove a big stick in and lose everything except a few HP at the top end. I've seen it way too many times where the first thing somebody suggests is put a bigger cam in it.
I couldn't agree more with the stealth approach. I'm a huge fan of the speak softly and carry a big stick philosophy. That's why I still run the steel 15" rallye's on my car. My reluctant addition is the 5" cowl hood. Prior the top of the carb only cleared the steel hood by less than an inch, adn that wasn't going to work. And since the hood was a freebie that didn't hurt either. :grin: We've all had our cars called something other than what they were. Years ago the "education encounters" on the street were real rewarding, now when they see the Stage 1 or Stage 2 fender emblem and they take a second look it saves us the trouble of proving the inevitable outcome.
how long does it take for you to get a mag...i subscribed on monday with the problem that their database said i had an invalid card, well checked my account and i was charged 3 times, i will have to wait 2 weeks to get a refund..anyways they said it took 4 to 6 weeks for me to get my mag, am i going to miss the other buick 455 issue..ou:
most decent sized book stores have a peiodical setion that carries just about all mags. Border's Books here in Seattle carries CC, and I certain others do too. Call around :TU:
They aren't trying to build the best 455. The motor is simply a platform on which to test cams, heads and intakes. The most common performance upgrades along with headers. As stated, I'm just glad to see some positive ink for our brand. Maybe it will peek more interest and others will see the light of what we already know.
Thanks guys keep it coming! Great to see Buicks in their magazine. If they got it all right from the beginning what fun would that be. Really who here got it right the first time even with the board at our finger tips. We're all still learning, that's what's so cool about our cars. And if you didn't like a twist you wouldn't work on a Buick. I'm sure the Chevy (boring) numbers are right on.:TU:
Kudos to CC for publishing the article. No surprise that they don't have the knowledge base of the this user group. But hey, I bet there's a hand full of people who read the article and decided to pursue Buick power - they probably end up here! What more could we ask for. I've always been a fan of CC, they seem to be well grounded. Ben
As always Jim everything you say is spot on but you know what?? Looks great for the Buick engine and anyone who sees that will be interested in the power potential and anyone we can bring into the fold is good news.
Popular Hotrodding now has a Buick 455 Edlebrock head- factory head comparison in their latest issue.
I don't know who's car that is in the PHR article but what's up with the 5500 stall (!) converter especially with a blower on. High stall converters make thing complicated trying to figure things out on a chassis dyno. HP pickup was nice but they never mention what cam was in it, I believe. They beat CC to the punch testing the Edelbrock heads but the CC article will be a little more precise in what you can expect bolting them on because of the setup in the PHR test car.
Mike I agree - an uncomplicated setup , simply bolt them on and see what the dyno shows. Cant wait to see those numbers next month ...J
