I'm with Al F. on this one too. What a great idea! All I want to do is admire every one of the cars for its uniqueness. At the A&W cruise I looked at a Sherwood Green Stage 1 with sunburnt paint a nasty overflow tank and assorted other items of noteworthiness and yet I loved that car! It was, after all an original Buick GS. My restored GS Stage 1 with only 14 miles on it since the restoration last year sat at home in the garage Too me, it wasn't worthy of any class and it wasn't built with a purpose in mind beyond saving a numbers matching 70 Stage 1. Frankly, it's overrestored - it's so damn nice that I know I'll become violently ill when the first paint chip occurs from a rock or other road debris. The damn thing was meant to be driven and I can't bring myself to do it - time to sell it and underrestore one of the others................ I too am all for a shorter show or time trials running concurrently. We left and headed back home rather than hang out for the length of time it would have taken to enjoy some drag racing!!!
Re: BFG Nationals i totally understand what you're saying. it just sounded like you were kinda upset about it and i was hoping if you were you'd maybe look at it differently and cheer up it's cool though, hopefully they do figure out a better way to do it next year! i'm all for making things better so like i said, voicing your opinion is good!
First off guys. A HUGE thumbs up for Brad and his family and the other few guys working the show. Without them there would be no show and all of us would have left our cars home. Brad is definitely the best! First off PLEASE keep this thread civil. If someone had a problem you can also e-mail Brad and if not to the others on the board, please sit back before posting a reply. This thread is for improvement of the event only. Let's all try to be adult on this matter. Now with that said, of course you are going to hear my comments and I have a few. Judging? Yes I like it, but with over a hundred cars to judge you need a ton of people that are knowledgable for judging, not just anyone, otherwise you'll have arguments about a judge not knowing what they are looking at (I need not explain this to you show guys). So let's say we get a bunch of judges, this would lead into the second complaint...a 6 -10 hour car show running even way longer. Why, because to properly judge over 100 cars you cannot RUSH the judges. Another examples take other large Buick events; GS National (yes a great Buick event) Norwalk's Buick Day (another great event) both pulling in a lot of cars and BOTH having a non judged show along with concours classes) Have we ever asked them why? I would venture to say their reply will be about the same. If we had no racing at this event like a BCA Meet then we can devote all day to judge the cars with no racers beating down our throats for a long wait. But we're not the BCA and we all like the racing end of it too. This event as we know, like the GS Nationals, like Norwalk, cater to both the show guy and racer so unfortunately it will be impossible to please one group 100%. But this does NOT mean we don't try and it does not mean we ignore suggestions and complaints. One important factor with the BPG (and I am not here to compare one meet to another) The BPG Board is flexible to make changes even last minute changes if it is reasonable to do so. Please keep that in mind. Brad had literally broke his arss setting up the show and WE had in the past year asked for help, and we had set up show rules way in advanced that this was a popular vote show, so all who entered should have already known the possible pitfalls of a popular voting show. What I have seen (and yes I was helping parking the cars) we had no clue on the car count and we were floored by the great turnout, so much it caught us short handed. As Brad stated that will not happen again. And being short handed caused the show to over run it's time by 90 minutes. Yes 90 minutes, as the schedule which was posted on this board and BPG board and at the event and the newsletter stating the racing was to start at 5 pm. 90 minutes doesn't seem long, but I agree as a racer it's a LONG time. But this will be corrected for next year. As for adding classes, changing classes, etc, Brad listens to every complaint and suggestion and he is flexible to make changes if any are needed. For next year we will be setting up a car show committee, so all you volunteers, now is your chance. One suggestion that we have been kicking around is moving the show out of the staging lanes, and we have a firm cut off for entries, example 12:30pm. When ballets are being tallied the racers can be called into the lanes to run off a time shot and depending on the amount of cars maybe two. Then about an hour or so later the lanes are closed. NO RACING. The show awards are presented to the winners. Once it is complete, the racing begins. Another comment was why can't we race during the show? Well show guys this is a no way that will not change. We had seen this in other events and it is not fair to the show guys. So with this time of the year at Salem the weather is usually in the 90's' HOT so why not race in the cooler night air? It seems to be a perfect fit. Car show during the day, racing at night. So with that said we (show staff ) has to be and will be for next year better prepared to handle a high volume of cars. Thanks for listening guys, Brad and all that helped out... THANK YOU!
There is something all of you are missing here...John's car won his class by a jury of his peers. You all voted for his car. I can assure you there was a proper count (the ballot counters didn't know the name of the entrant, only the registration number) there were no "dangling chads" nothing. All we did was count. You all chose his car over all others. He was in the proper class. His car was chosen by you. And I'm sure he feels his reward is tainted in someway because he won. He didn't want to win it this way. Think of him for a change. Gang, he won fair and square. He didn't load the box. Believe me, I'm all in favor of having an exhibition class. A lot less work for me and my staff. Al, that is maybe where you should put your car until it is complete and able to compete with the better restored cars. Here's my (and others) idea...Concours class as a formal 400 point judged event, as it is now. A "judged" 100 (or 200) point portion of the show where the very nice restored cars can be judged. A "exhibition" class where you just park your car and hang out with your buds and soak in the whole deal. As a participant in the exhibition class, you WILL be my first call for judges in the other classes :grin: . Anybody want to add something? Comments? Ferris? Pipe in now or forever hold your peace.
i wasn't there but i agree with ya here and rick. it's hard judging that many cars. nothing will be perfect and work for everyone... the name of the game is just go and have fun and just enjoy it. i wish i could've been there to enjoy it and believe me.... it seems i missed a lot of great stuff sitting on my arse all day saturday because i had to. if i had been there you could've counted on me helping out in some way or another for wolverine who had his 350 blow up and throw a rod. heck, i probably would've been running my butt off towards the trees when the GN-Xtreme (spelling?) hit the trees. because i know you guys would do the same for any other member of this forum. the point of all this is... we're here to have fun and get together.. it was a car show... sure.. it's one where the buicks finally stand out... but don't let that make you forget that you go and enjoy yourself at the other shows too even though you KNOW you aren't the crowd favorite. because of this car show was there any lack of people having fun? i'm sure a few ego's were maybe busted or hurt... but ya know... you gotta support who won because they won for a reason and that's just the way the tables turned that day. we see it all the time, every car show i goto the chevy or ford wins the cruise plaque and the tshirt and all the other goodies while i sit back and have fun shootin the crap with some buddies.. one thing you probably forgot in all this... we're all buick guys. i'm sure if you have a nice looking buick someone was drooling on it... maybe it was that one little kid who went "what color is that daddy?" or that 70 year old who remembers his car that looked exactly like it... or in my case... you could've had me looking at every one going "you know... that car might not look the best of all of them here, but i bet the owner put a lot of hard work and effort into it.. and i KNOW how that feels" and just feel proud that you know you put that effort into it and that it's YOUR car.. congrats to all those who won their events... and hopefully next year i'll get to shake a bunch of hands and say hi because i missed a great opportunity to thank all you guys on here for helping me through my first car restoration and it's YOUR support that ultimately keeps me working on it and striving for more and better. if your car didn't win anything... at least realize you have at least one person who admires your car... and that's you and ultimately that's the only opinion that matters!
It looks like not everyone that participated in the car show wanted to have their car judged against others. I for one enjoy having my car judged because that is how I learn what needs to be improved. I look forward to the BCA meets and the point system because my car is being judged against a judging sheet and not other cars. With this type of system there is no 1st, 2nd or 3rd place and no hurt feelings... This type of judging does require quite a few people who know what they are looking at so it may not be easy to pull it off with so many cars. Like someone has said, why not have a non judged show, but, have the option to have your car judged on the point system? I would pay an extra fee to have my car judged that way.. All of the cars could still be parked together and the judges would only look at the cars that requested to be judged. My car is by no means a concours class car but I do try to keep it as original as I can (afford) and still drive it. Heck, I burned out one of my 30 year old T3 headlights driving through the rain 3 hours to get the the event. I will replace that T3 with another T3 because that is what I like to do with my car. At the first BCA meet that I attended I received a bronze award (351 points out of 400, I think) and that was sure better than any peoples choice award. There were quite a few cars that did not enter the show field because the owners thought they were not up to snuff or to dirty... (are you listening David G.? ). Anyone who brings their car to an event should not feel this way... Great show, great event, and thank you to all who made it possible. :TU: :TU: :TU:
I've never really been into the "show scene", but I DO love walking through rows and rows of beautiful classic Buicks. I've never entered any of my past cars in any shows, but I like to take them to "cruises" or "gatherings" and park with all the other cars. I didn't bring a Buick with me this year at Salem, but I'm sure that if I did, I would not have entered it in the show. I don't want my cars to be "judged" or even voted on. But if we did the "exhibition" thing next year, I'd surely park my car in the field with the rest of them. So I guess I'm saying I really like the ideas that are being tossed around in this thread. :TU: With that said, I had a GREAT time at Salem, and want to thank everyone responsible for the incredible amount of work that was put into making it a great success. :TU: Hopefully we'll be able to come next year too, regardless of where it's going to be.... and even "more hopefully" I'll be able to actually bring a Buick. :laugh: :beer
Guys, Just got off the phone with Al. We talked for well over an hour and I understand where he is coming from. First off, he did not expect to win an award for his car, and is not "whining" about that. However, he was concerned about the number of nice cars that did not go out on the show field. Many people he talked to were not going to show their cars because they felt they were not nice enough. That is why he was upset about the restored cars being in the same classes as the driven cars. If we keep the show the way it is, here are a few things we can do to fine tune it; 1. For owners that think their cars are not up to snuff, we can issue a "Display Only" window card. This would allow them to be put in their respective classes, but they would not get any votes toward awards. That way there is no pressure, and the owners can participate in the show. 2. For those that want their cars judged under the 400 point system to see what is wrong with their cars. That's easy, you put them in Concours, and we judge the car. If the score is below 355 points, then no award is given, BUT when you get the judging sheets back you will know what to fix. (Contrary to popular belief I do not bite.) 3. For owners that are questioning whether their car is correct enough to be put in the Concours class. If they ask, I will be glad to Pre-Judge the car. (I do this all the time for people.) I will do a quick look and let you know if I feel the car is correct enough to be in the medal range. However, I will not state what the medal would be, that can only be determined by the judging sheets. If a car is questionable, as to whether it would receive anything I will also tell you that. If next year's show changes to being a display only show, with only the Concours class being judged, then it would be more relaxed and would end up like the A&W show on thursday night. Either way would be fine with me. Let me know what you think. Years ago when we had troubles at the GSCA with guys putting Skylarks in the GS classes, and Look-a-likes in the GSX classes, I didn't just bitch about the current set-up, but wrote a couple page letter that outlined a way to avoid this from happening in the future. It was welcomed with open arms as a solution. This is your Club, think about this and give Brad and everyone else involved a solution. Duane
EXCUSE ME!!!!!:blast: The BCA Nationals has had drag racing at Columbus in '99, Richmond in '00, in '01 at Buffalo, the closest track(Lancaster 1/8M on the straight-away of the roundy-round track) was too expensive to rent! '02 we race at Bunker Hill near Kokomo, IN, in '03 at Milan during the Buick Centennial. There was no racing in Plano, TX as the closest tracks were over an hour away, with one meaning driving through Dallas to get to it! In '05 we will be going to NY International Raceway in Leicester, NY on Thursday July 7! Sure we only raced for 4 or 5 hours, but sure did get alot of interesting Buicks and spectators out to see what was it was like to race a bunch of Buicks!!! Check it out here! ou:
Roberta: Being a BCA member and BPG member, I see a striking difference in the way the programs are run. The BCA segregates the racing from the car shows. The car show is the event and racing is a novel sideshow. That is done to satisfy the members who have different interests. BCA car shows are not interupted, halted or delayed by racers. They are in different locations. Do you think the members would have settled for having the 100th at the local dragstrip with a bunch of big block and turbo cars running around? Has the BCA ever held a National event at a racetrack? Milan drew lots of racers and spectators because it was the biggest Buick event ever assembled. It was great. I would like the BCA to consider the racers more. Perhaps have a race car class. You and I know they are a car show and will always be that way. See you at Norwalk (September 12) for BUICK RACEDAY. :grin:
John, you are correct, but I just wanted to tell Rick and others that the BCA has had some racing at their events, some! :grin: Remember there's room for all, but not every event will make everyone happy, but we can all try! Take constructive comments always for every event, of course! Because the customer is usually right! (but not always!) Was great to see you and everyone else, missed a few, but that's what happens! Check out the pics we took over 160 at BPG Nats 2004 RV
I know, I wasn't even there. But I am no stranger to bitchin after a car show, I am even guilty of doing that myself. We all have a lot of time, money, and work into our cars and winning a trophy always makes us feel glad we took the trouble to make our cars nice. With that being said, for what it's worth, my opinion is that different levels of judging is a good idea. I personally think judging a car that is driven on road using the 400 point system is ludicris. What the hell good are h3 headlights anyway? Why have stock suspension when you need better handling? As well as the many other modifications that are safety and common sense issues. Cars in this category should be judged on a more realistic basis. It's OK to use the 400 point system on a concours car, because in that class the competition is much tighter. Having to pay extra to get judged in this class, along with better trophies than the cheaper class, I think is a great idea. I also think having a participant judged class for those whose choose it would also be a good idea. As for the members who criticize for "whining", you are the ones who are doing the whining............I credit Al for speaking up, that took a lot of guts to do in front of over 5,000 members. He was only making a constructive suggestion, that I'm sure is welcomed by everyone in order to make sure next year's show is better. Now that we're on the subject, how about making a special class for '67 Riv's with Nailheads in them? lolou: :laugh: (just kidding, the 400 point system always kills me) :bglasses:
Hell, I'm just tickled pink that GSThunder posted!!!!! Yo Al!!! Can't wait to see your Flying Purple People Eater at next year's event!!! For those who don't know, Al has dropped a VERY worked 455 into a 3-window Deuce Coupe. And he has kept it very close to early 60's period correctness. And hopefully he'll have THE BLOWER on it by then too. Dude, I hope you bring a few extra pairs of boxers with you. I have a feeling that featherweight is going to FLY. And as for shows... did you people REALLY look at my car??? It's a freakin' MESS! Pep Boys seat covers, Headliner is hanging down. Paint chips galore. If we were being judged on how close to perfect our cars are, then Tom Telesco easily deserved the win. But I suppose my mods just suited the attendees a little better on that day, and it is possible that the people at a different show would prefer Tom's Riv over mine. And in any case, it is sweet to have a trophy plaque, but I didn't enter it to even go after a prize. I'll still enter it in the Modified Riv class, but only to let others know what class I think it belongs in. Thanks again everyone for putting on just one of the best weekends of my life. You probably shot yourself in the foot, because now you will have to work twice as hard to top it next year!
Mike, I wouldn't mind putting my car in an exhibition/display class. But all I really wanted to do at the show was wander up and down the rows upon rows of beautiful Buicks, admiring a collection of cars I've never seen before, and likely won't again for 2-3 more years. A lot of guys stopped by my car in the pits to chat and have a closer look at it, recognizing it from my avatar and searching me out. My car is what it is, I'm not embarrassed that it's got parts on it from a 69 Skylark Custom, and mostly 71/72 parts under the hood, and that it's filthy on the underside from driving it whenever I can. Participation in everything isn't for everyone. I hope you didn't judge me by my non-participation in the show portion of the BPG event, just as I don't judge you for not racing your car. I had a blast racing every day, making a couple dozen passes over the 4 days, and going 3 rounds on Sunday in eliminations, then driving it 1000 miles home again. Maybe the next BPG event will find it with a 455 under the hood! :Brow: :3gears:
Brad I think you did a great job for a first time event. i spoke with a number of our club members and they agrees to step up and run the show with you next year. Give me a shout when you are ready to get things going.
Well, since we all have a voice in our Club I'll add my thoughts to the pot - While my car has more than 4 modifications based on what "modifications" were defined as for this show, My car sat alone in the parking lot for most of the show. Dave, Mike and Todd's cars all sat together while mine felt like the bastard Stepchild parked over -------------------> there. Different Row....not even close I would have MUCH rather parked it next to its brothers and sisters and gone "Display Only" , and not receive a trophy than to look at my pride and joy sitting all alone. Please, dont think Im upset because I am not....not in the slightest. I learned a long time ago that I put my car out there for others to see and enjoy - and if, at the end of the day, I get a trophy - thats fine.....if not o No: I dont really care. To be perfectly honest, I have a box with about 15 trophy's sitting in the basement collecting dust. As to popular vote Vs. Judging for non-concours cars.....thats going to be a tough one to hammer out. personally, I'd like to see it kept the way it is but loose the modified class AND have the option of "Display Only" on a car You want to be judged ?? Concours is over there ------> Everything else gets lumped together for Popular Vote, and its your option to be in it or "Display Only" I've taken my share of Wins next to much more original cars than mine, and I've felt genuinely sorry for the guy who's "More Stock" and lost to me.....but Heyy !!! People LIKE what I've done to my car or they wouldn't have voted for it !! I have tried to keep it as stock looking as possible with the hood closed I think EVERY PERSON who brought their car and put it out on the field is a WINNER !!! Wayyyyy too many cars sitting in the pits and parking lots of shows (not just this one) becuase "Its not up to" being judged. PUT IT OUT THERE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE !!! BE PROUD !!
Volunteering I too think everyone who participated in whatever capacity from my limited exposure this year did a great job. I'll bring my car along and paste a big ol' display only banner on it next year - I don't have enough patience to make it look as nice as most of what I saw last week. Lastly, I will here and now volunteer my services in whatever capacity is needed for next years event - considering you're part of the problem if you're not part of the solution. So, whether it's emptying garbage cans (sorry don't have the stomach to do the porta potties), parking cars, mowing the lawn I think you get the picture. Let me know where my services are needed and I'll happily assist! Regards all,
By no means am I judging you at all :beer All I was trying to say is that there was no reason for anyone who brought their Buick not to park it in the show area. I would love to have taken my GS down the track no matter how slow it may have been, but there is a reason I did not race my car. 1. Lack of $ to fix it if I break something. 2. Lack of ability to fix a major break. 3. Lack of time to do a major fix. 4. No way to get the car home if it did break. 5. My car is #s matching an I would like to keep it thay way. I am sure you can say the same thing but I am very cautious when it comes to things like that. Some people are into racing their cars and others are into preserving them.
OK, I'm going to say it. Do we spend all our time and money for the sole purpose of getting a trophy or do we really want to share our rides with the world? We have a monthly U]Cruise In[/U] that draws as many as 1900 cars in Upstate NY where no judging is done. In fact people are turned away because of space limitations and no trophys are awarded. There are true concours vehicles there along with works in progress. Everything from Model T's to T Buckets. No trophys for anyone. No judging, just a gathering of people showing their cars. Oh, there are dash placques and no admission charges. Just something to think about.
