First I would say for the ones didn't make it to the first BPG Nationals you missed a super event. I hope the oganizers learn from what they did right and what they did wrong to make this a even better event next year. I will not be showing my GS at this event again because of the way it was set up. There were many classes to enter and in my class (I Drive Mine) was in restored class. I was seeing guys driving there frame off concourse restored trailer queens to my class for a easy win. One parked right next to me!!! I was not pleased and thought about pulling my car from the show because it was embarrassing!!! Don't get me wrong my car is extremly nice but is not fair to be judge against a car that never sees the road just parking lots and storage areas. I have always enjoyed showing my GS except at the BPG Nationals, this was embarrassing. AL.
Let them know what you are thinking! That's how you can change it next year and make it better for you, and everyone else. I am sure they would want to hear your thoughts. Maybe they can have a "Daily Driver" class next year or something. Then I can enter in that class too. That or maybe a "Project Class". I did notice when the car show was going on that there were an awfull lot of really nice Buicks sitting in the pits! Next year I hope they go to a bit of a shorter show also...... it was a bit long this year. Maybe 9 to noon or something. Mike
Yo AL. Great seeing you at the Nat's. As we discussed, I agree that cars like ours that are long in the tooth due to weekly flogs around town should be in a different class than trailer queens. But, I was informed that one of the cars we had talked about is driven weekly to cruise-ins and around town. So we would need to define what "driver" means. The car in question was trailered to the Nat's only out of convenience and concern for its survival. So, we'll have to brainstorm to see of there can be a class for cars that have maybe never had a frame-off restoration and are driven, and maybe a class for frame-off casual drivers. In any case, it will be a touchy situation. But, we all know that your car rocks, man. It is just a very nice car and I'd be proud to own it. C-ya at Cecil???
Just for the record guys-my Stage 1 is driven to a number of meets (Lebanon Dragway for the Hemmings Musclepalooza Car Show, and Englishtown which I also drove). I would not consider my car a trailer queen-most of the events I have been to(with the exception of this event and last year's 100th anniversary of Buick in Flint)this car was driven.Can you blame me?I was very fortunate to have Ken Lisk open trailer my car,otherwise I would not have been able to bring this car to this event. Ken supplied the truck and Mark Deconti supplied the trailer. With the exception of Gran Sport Autobody doing the restorative paint and bodywork,I restored the rest of my car MYSELF.It took 8 long years to get it into the condition you see now.I did not have the luxury of a large climate controlled garage to work in(as a matter of fact,my garage is an old carraige house and it gets just as hot or cold as outside).Right now the car is in that garage. The reason why I did not enter my car in the concours area is because I felt it was not up to concours standards,which is why I entered it in the GS Stock class. Funny as it may seem,but my car was the only car in the class that had the Goodyear Polyglas tires on it. After I take care of a few details on my car,I will be very happy to enter it in the concours class next year.
Judged car shows bring out hard feelings. I know that from the model car shows. Someones work is recognized, someones work goes unoticed. I say the only way to have fun at a show is to put a sign in your car saying "Do Not Judge".
First off, thanks to everyone who came to the event. It was wonderful to see all the people we have come to know and put a face with a name. Al, I hear you. In fact I heard you when you told me as much at the show field. I WANT you to put your car into the show, as I had told you in numerous PM's and emails. I was very happy you came with your car and entered it in the show. It is a beautiful car of which you should be proud, I know I would be. The "restored" class you speak of is the "Concours" class, all the rest of the classes are just the same as any other car show, at least any other that I've attended. One of the chances you take when there is a popular vote is not always the "best" car wins. I personally hate popular vote, but it was all I could do this year to do the show as we did. I have "lost" many shows with one of my restored cars to a more "popular" car. Our problem with the show this year was a lack of help. I had my two sons and one of their friends parking cars and taking tickets. Larry (LarrysGS) helped and another person whom I cannot remember at this time. There was 4 guys judging concours and we had 4 people counting ballots back in my trailer. That was it. If you want a true judged show, I'll need many more people to help. There were some errors made on my part, one of which I never expected the turnout we had. We had 13 cars in concours and over 100 on the show field! In concours, it takes a ton of time to judge each car then you have to add and double check your work. I was understaffed for my side of the event. That will not happen again, I promise you. Al, how do you propose we solve your problem? I'm all ears as to any suggestions. Give me some ideas. I promise they will get my consideration. edit: corrected BuickFrank to LarrysGS
Truthfully saying,I did not want to embarrass anyone and like everyone,wanted to enjoy the day. In my class alone,there were some really,very nice cars. And Al,you have a very nice car and I hope that I didn't upstage you. P.S. Brad,had I known there weren't enough people judging or running the car show, I certainly would've helped. I'd be more than happy to help you next year.
Re: Re: BPG Nationals Show Car Problems Mike, Yes, it was long. As I stated in my previous post I was understaffed. That will not, I repeat, NOT happen again. Jim Haas, Bruce Hunter, Rick Martinez and myself spoke of this on Saturday and Sunday. We may move things around a little, allowing the staging lanes to remain clear so when we do go racing, not all the show cars are in the way. Timing is another issue we discussed. Earlier start (maybe) and an earlier finish to allow us to properly count ballots/judging sheets. Do a little racing then parade the show cars during an intermission in the racing. We are not perfect. This is the first time most of us have ever put on an event like this. It was a learning experience, I can tell you.
I understand completely Brad. I beat Tom Telesco in the Modified Riviera class, and my car is in no way even remotely as nice as Tom's. Until I get the seats and headliner done this winter, the interior is a real basket case. Tom's is spectacular. But that's where popularity can go for or against you. And Carl, your's was the car I was referring to, and I was in no way insinuating that your car shouldn't have been in that class. Al pointed it out, and until Ken reminded me, I had forgotten you drive your car all over the place, and now I just wanted Al to know that your's isn't a trailer queen. You worked hard on your car and it shows. It is one of the nicest cars at the show. Some day maybe I can even make to Marcus Dairy. I think what Al is referring to is maybe that cars that have had frame off restorations have a huge advantage over cars that have just had repaints and reupholstery. And yes, I agree that if the car has had a frame-off and is driven, then it is certainly in a different class than a frame-off trailer queen. Regardless of whether or not the trailer queen is concours quality or not. But how do we separate the frame-off drivers from the restifications? And what is the time limit for a frame off to no longer be considered a "frame off"? I hope we can maybe have a class that puts the cars into classes that everyone is happy with. Brad? Is there some way to separate the frame-offs from the plain old repaints?
Well Brad i for one think you ALL did one hell of a job!! this was the biggest n best first time event i've attended, As for the car show you're never going to make everyone happy, everyone has their own ideas on how things should be ran and instead of come to the people who put the event on or volunteer to help, they come to the BB and complain, guys theres only one way to get things done the right way. If you have an idea share it with the people who run the event and see if helps, I met Brad this weekend and can tell u hes a very nice guy and from my experience always willing to help, hell he invited me a complete stranger to come to his home and take pics of his gsx. Now thats class. I think it was one of the better run buick events ive seen and ive been attending them since 1989 so i've been to a few. I think the event staff and track personnel did a great job, NO event is without problems, but this one ran pretty smoothly. Just my .02 cents
Yes, it's called concours (I'm not trying to be a jerk, just stating facts). You're always going to have problems when a car with a lot of work and $$$ has been spent on it vs. a car that is a daily driver compete in the same class. Give me some ideas...I'm all ears at this point. oh Yards...hows the battery?:grin: :grin: :grin:
Brad, the reason for that is Carl was being judged against another concours frame off restored GS!!! AL
I think the 400 point system will solve this problem, this way you are not competing against the other cars your are being judged against a 400 point set system. This type of system does require a lot of help being judged and I can see why it was not used this year. Popular vote shows you really cannot take seriously because everyone has their favorite color or something else and that is the car they will choose. At least with the 400 point system you can find out where you lost points and what needs to be improved. Hopefully next year I will be able to help out with the show. :TU:
Mike, I agree with you. A 100 (or 200 or 400) point judged event is the answer. I've said this all along. That, AND maybe having something like an "Archival" class for daily driven cars, cars that are unrestored. My Centurion is like this. It will NEVER win a BCA event, in it's current condition, but it is original and cars are only original once. Al, Again I ask you what your suggestions are? Are you willing to help me? If we go to a judged event, I will need many, many people to help with that...people who are knowledgeable about the vehicles in a class and fair with their judgement. I cannot do it by myself (I tried this year and failed miserably to satisify you). I know what the problem was, how are we going to correct it? Please give me your suggestions.
Brad you did a great job for a first time event especially combined with a larger turn out than expected. I am embarrassed at myself for not offering to help out until the end when we were trying to get the cars rounded up and in order. You have my help from here on out if you want it.
The 400 point system is what concourse is based on. Al's situation is what I was experiencing one year in BG, but with a twist. My GSX is a very nice car, but not really up to concourse specs. Do I go with the regular show and be over the norm, or go to concourse where I might be embarassed. How many degrees can we have? It is quite a delima which I'm sure we can try to even out somewhat, but I don't think we can ever make it completely even, just close. Brad, I too could, and would, have helped. Don't remember seeing a call for help needed, so I just thought all was covered. Jeff
Brad, thanks so much in looking in to my complaint. I as you know I'm not a complainer on the Board and raise issues only when I hear many others having the same issues (Its not a me issue). I think there is no real easy answer but having the owners enter the class them self doesn't work and should be up to a pre judge kind of deal, like if the car is a high point car it should go to that class. I've been around these cars over 25 years and can spot a high point car in very little time. This one of my thoughts AL.
Dunno how this will sound: Our cars are old....... alot of them are restoration projects in the works ...... like mine. How about a few new classes? 1) Driver Class 65-67 2) Driver Class 68-69 3) Driver Class 70-72 4) Driver CLass 73-77 5) Driver Class 78 and newer These could be close to what a "survivor" class is, but these would NOT be: frame offs, pure race cars, cars that don't quite make concours. It's great to see a 35 year old car that you can eat off the engine, it's so clean........but exactly how often are these things getting driven......really? I thought it was shame that the amount of cars that were left sitting in the pits. Not only would I like to see "show" cars, but I would like to do a "show what ya brought" class. Mike
