Actually, they called them Supercars back when they were making them. Although the term "Musclecar" was used by Road Test magazine in an article back in 1967, but that term didn't get used much by car guys or the manufacturers until well after the factories had stopped producing them. The name Musclecar really didn't take off until the mid '80s, when the cars became popular again since many owners bailed out during the gas crunches of the '70s.
I see the majority doesn't agree with me. I guess I'm old or have wide knowledge of this cool ride, I know these cars and how they ran and stick to my vote, Yes! :3gears: AL.
I was there, but not old enough to soak it in (born in '64) but what I do remember was in the early/mid '80s when Chuck Green, the editor of Popular and Performance Car Review magazine (later to become Musclecar Review) organized the first SuperCar Showdown at Quaker City in Salem, Ohio. I saw the coverage in the magazine and just HAD to buy the video of the event.
Maybe I'm a little simplistic here... If it sounds like it has muscle, it's a musclecar. There's plenty of 13-14 sec cars out there that don't fit the musclecar definition (diesel trucks, turbo 4 cyls, cripes... even Nissan Altimas) but there's also plenty of "musclecars" that arent' really that fast in stock configuration (Boss 302's, Z28's... what do the old magazine articles say? just look at the 50 fastest there were only 20 faster than 14 sec. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=156810&highlight=50+fastest) While I'd have a hard time saying my Riv was a musclecar in stock form, I'd say that my rebuild makes is so. The sound of the exhaust alone makes it a musclecar to the kids in the neighborhood! :TU: That being said... until I get it sorted out a bit more, I'm sure that I'm not going to break 15 sec in the 1/4. But then... Does a digital wideband tuned carb, a 3000 stall converter and a posi rear have anything to do with a car being a musclecar? If that's what it takes, I guess I'll have to drop the $$$ to make it happen. On the other hand, the only way for the neighbors to tell is that sweet exhaust note.
They used to say Buicks arn't muscle cars. "Too many luxury items." If a Riv or Toro isn't a musclecar, then why would the factory give them designations (in the "musclecar" era) like GS or GT or W34 for that matter. They say that the first muscle car was the GTO but the 57 Chrysler 300C had 2 doors and sported a 392" with over 390 hp. As far as it being an intermediate I don't think the term was even invented yet and as far as something smaller, they wer'nt putting big blocks in Henry J's. They expanded the original idea of what a muscle car is and Hemming's even includes cars like mine 74GS. Was it really a Muscle car ? At the time it was made sure. Someone brought up the Mustang. By original definition it isn't either but what about the Boss 429, Boss 351 or the 65 Shelby GT350 ? Small engine in a small body but fast. How do we classify the new Mercury Marauder or the new Impala SS ? Four doors of all things. I think that these are all muscle cars but when we explain the term to a novice gearhead we should preface the definition with the original meaning and then explain how and why it was expanded. Just my 2 cents worth. Mario.
Is this the first Supercar... or the first Musclecar? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambler_Rebel 4 door Rambler. Rockin!
The first muscle car (big engine in medium sized car) could very well be the 1949 Olds 88 with the new high compression OHV Rocket engine :3gears:
Everybody knows the Pontiac GTO was the first musclecar. However, there were musclecars before the GTO.
49 Olds was a musclecar but Toro Not!! I have had serveral including an 82 diesel and they are healthy luxury vehicles like and Eldo. :laugh:
No to get too far off topic, but the BUICK Century used this (big engine in medium sized car) in the '36 Century... Relative to the era in which it was produced I would say "musclecar" but they had not invented the term yet. When I was considering a car purchase in 1988 I had criteria like Big block Dual Exhaust Posi Hidden Headlights Fresh hood/induction multi carb... I ended up with a 65 Riviera...:TU: It was close enough to a muscle car for me. And they were really reasonable $$ wise at the time-
I came upon this info on a Toronado GT/W34 while researching a W30 for sale ... just FYI. I thought that '70 Toro GT production numbers appear much higher than I would think. If the info below is correct, then about 20% of the 25,000 or so '70 Toro production were GT's. 1970: Same motor as 1969, except that there was a "GT" option with the 400hp motor, apparently available in any paint scheme. The fender arches also changed into flares, and Olds did away with hideaway headlights in the new grill design. No OAI. Many myths exist concerning the 1970 Toro GT. Perhaps it is because few articles have been written about this fine car. It remains shrouded in the mists. It is my intent with this article to shed light on the truths of this car which has been called "the quickest and fastest luxury car on the road in 1970"(1). I would like to express my thanks to Mrs. Helen Early for the assistance she provided me in the preparation of this article. The 1970 Toro GT has its roots in 1968 when the 425 cubic inch motor was replaced in the Toronado with a 455. The final drive was also changed from 3.21 to 3.07. A very special high performance option was offered for the first time in 1968 and was called the W-34 option. At the heart of the 1968 and all other W-34s in 1969 and 1970 was the GM part #400165 engine camshaft. This camshaft was also seen in the 1968 and 1969 Hurst Olds and the W-30 442 with automatic transmission. The W-34 Toronados did not have the special D or F heads seen in the W-30 442s but rather had stock Toronado heads C (1968 and 1969) or E (1970). Essentially it was this camshaft that made these cars so unique. Production number in 1968 for the W-34 was 111. This option also included a forced air induction package. This was a one year only offering as the 1969 and 1970 W-34s did not have this assembly. "Car Life" in May of 1968 ran a test drive of the 1968 W-34 and reported a final drive ratio of 3.36. It appears this may be in error as "Car and Driver" in April 1968 also road tested a 1968 W-34 and reported a final drive of 3.07. As performance tests were similar, it leads me to conclude the "Car Life" article to be incorrect or perhaps it was a special factory offering. All my other sources do not confirm a final drive of 3.36 ever being available in any Toronado. The 1968 W-34 was dual exhausted through a notched bumper with chrome tips. The non W-34 1968 Toronados had a single tail pipe from the large transverse muffler. The 1968 Toros were the first Toros to have single exhaust tail pipes. In 1969, the W-34 continued but lost its cold air induction assembly and notched rear bumper with chrome tips although dual tail pipes persisted. Non W-34 1969 Toros were single tail piped. At present, the production number of 1969 W-34 is unknown. Final drive remained at 3.07. In 1970, Oldsmobile blew the doors down with a large number of very potent performance cars and they went all out for the W-34 option. It was for the first time called a GT. Thus the Toro GT was born and died as a one year only option. The pulsing and beating 400165 camshaft persisted for one last time and was coupled with a redesigned torque converter. According to Motor Trend, October 1969, the new torque converter "improved the force of acceleration by 1500 lbs. at 5MPH, shortly after start". "It held the engine speed at or near the torque speed for a greater time." Final drive was 3.07. The notched rear bumper returned with chrome exhaust tips. A special GT emblem was found on the front hood next to the Toronado name and special paint striping was applied around the wheel openings. Production was 5341 out of total production of 25,433. All the W-34s were rated at 400 hp which is the highest horsepower rating Oldsmobile has put in any of its production cars to date. The 1970 GT was just another option such as cruise control but when ordered for $47.30, it created a very special car. Some people are surprised there were so many 1970 GTs but I'm surprised there were so few. My personal view is that they all should have been GTs. The 70 GTs are more fitting with the Toronado as a luxury performance automobile which is the way it was started in 1966. The 1970 GT was the last performance Toronado. Just as the 442 was a special performance modification to the Oldsmobile "A" body, I think of the 1970 Toro GT as a special performance modification to the Oldsmobile "E" body. The analogy only fits so far as the myths will tell. Myth #1 The 1970 Toro GT has a different final drive. False. It has the standard 3.07. Myth #2 The Toro GT has a heavier suspension. Also false. The GTs had stock Toro suspension. However, a heavy duty suspension could be ordered (F41) on any 1970 Toro for only $21.06. Incidentally, this F41 option contained the same front torsion bar as the 1966 Toronado. The rear springs were different. Myth #3 The 1970 Toro GT contained a heavy duty radiator. Again false, but Y72 option was available for any 1970 Toro and bought you a four core radiator. Why not also order M55 automatic transmission auxiliary oil cooler for only $15.80? Myth #4 The Toro GT was only available on the deluxes. The GT option was available on either the standard or deluxe Toros. The only difference in standard or deluxe is the interior (door panels and seat upholstery). 23,082 1970 Toronados were deluxe and 2,351 were standard. It is not known how many of each were GTs but if one used the ratio of 1:5 an estimation of 4,616 deluxe GTs and 470 standard GTs could be made. The accuracy of this is highly speculative. As the 1970 Toro GTs with bucket seats may be the most desirable to collect, it is interesting to note that the 1970 custom Toronados (9687) with bucket seats came in only two colors, black and saddle. The 1970 standard Toronados (9487) with bucket seats came in only one color, ivory. So a 1970 Toro GT (or non GT) could have one of three interior colors if it had bucket seats. Black, saddle or ivory depending if standard or deluxe Toronado. It should be added that bucket seats in the 1970 Toronado could be ordered with no additional cost. However, the sport console (D55) option cost an additional $50.55. It included floor transmission shift. The D55 option was not necessarily coupled with the bucket seats. I have seen Toronados with bucket seats without the sport console and floor shift. How do you know if it's really a 1970 GT or a W-34 in 1968 or 1969? The bumpers are easily changed. Paint is frequently sprayed over the GT stripes or added to non GT cars. The hood emblem is also easily added or perhaps the whole hood is replaced with the GT emblems. The way I tell is to first look at the transmission code. It is on the left side of the transmission and riveted to the case. It should have the letters OM instead of a regular Toronado transmission letters OJ. If you find an OM, wipe off the grease and look for the VIN stamped on the transmission case near the code letters. If this VIN matches the car VIN you are half way finished. Next remove the power steering pump bracket that attaches to the left side of the engine block. Under the bracket is another VIN on the engine block which must match the transmission and frame VIN. If all match, congratulations, it is a W-34 regardless of the rest of the appearance. Remember, it is the combination of motor and transmission that makes these cars unique. Another way to check the motor would be to pull the cam and check the identification on the end. Of course, the window sticker or a factory build sheet would also clarify the- situation but I have not been that lucky yet. How much are they worth? It's worth what someone will pay you for it. Prices seem to be comparable to the 1966 Toro but it must be remembered the much greater rarity of the W-34. There are quite a few 1970 GTs around and my advice is to take the time to find what you really want and at the right price. Be prepared to pay significantly for a real nice one. In my experience I find many are, overrated in condition. Unless it has undergone recent restoration expect to have major front end and brake repair. Rust under the rocker panels are a very common finding in any first generation Toronado and Comfortron can add many problems if not working properly. My own collection of Toronados includes six 1970 GTs in various stages of restoration. They range from parts car status to blue ribbon winner. All were obtained in the local area and I would encourage all my fellow enthusiasts to look locally as you will be able to get a better car at a better price. Look at all 1970 Toros offered for sale as many people do not realize the GT is special. The 1970 Toro GT is the ultimate expression of performance in the Oldsmobile Toronado. It is to me more enjoyable to drive and more responsive than a 442. The braking is superb and the handling great. I can recommend this car to all who love Oldsmobiles. Engine Specs: High-lift-cam (#400165) 400 hp 455. F block with E heads. Transmissions: TH-425 coded "OM". Special torque convertor for 1970 - holds engine RPM closer to peak torque longer. Axles: Final drive was 3.07. Performance Data: No data.
I believe that the three real sports identified by Ernest Hemingway were boxing, bullfighting, and automobile racing. Does anyone know for sure?
There are only three true sports - mountain climbing, bullfighting and motor racing - all the rest being games. E. Hemingway
