I have been having this debate with pretyy musch every one of of my friends and I am outgunned so any comments would be great. For those of you who don't know, the toronado was a car made by oldsmobile starting in 1966. They had 425 big blocks producing 385 horsepower and 475 ft lbs of torque and were capable of running the quarter mile in 15.5-16 seconds(not bad for a 2 and a half ton monster) and had a top speed of over 130 mph, but they were front drive. In my opinion, anything with that much performace credentials is a muscle car. Plus they are one of the best looking cars I have ever seen and will always be one of my favorites(after my 72 Skylark of course:laugh: ).
A base Riviera would not be generally considered a muscle car unless it was GS optioned. Didnt the Toronado have a "GT" package? If so, I would classify a Toronado GT as a muscle car
They did come with a GT package, and in 70 they had the W-30 455 mill that made 450 hp and 500 ft lbs of torque. I believe quarter mile times for this were in the low 15's or high 14's.
Just saw one at Hershey 1970 Toronado GT W34 supposed to be 400 ponies. Darn cool machine in my book :beers2:
I tend to hold to a purist's view of the Musclecar definition which means a less than full-size body stuffed with an otherwise oversize engine usually found in the full-size cars. That said, a '70 Toronado GT with a 400HP W engine is quite the "gray area" just like the Chrysler Letter Series cars from the pre-GTO early '60's ... 400+ HP on tap, but in a full-size body. So, I don't think anyone would argue with the fact that '69 Pontiac Grand Prix with a 428 HO engine, a '70 Grand Prix with a 455 HO or a '70-'71 Monte Carlo SS are muscle cars, even though I think they may be physically longer and as heavy as the Toro. Like I said ... a total gray area. I knew a guy some years ago with a blue '70 Toro GT ... he could smoke the front tires it seemed like forever.
I had a '70 Eldorado that a friend has now. With a 3.07 ratio axle,it has run 14.40's with the front tire spinning first and most of second gear. At 70 mph on the freeway,not much will keep up with it up to 125 or so,including a friend's supercharged Hardley F150 Super Crew. From a dead stop,the Hardley truck will jump the Eldo off the line and stay ahead for a 1/4-just barely-and then the Eldo will run it down and pass it as if it ran out of gas. 400hp@4400 and 550 lbs ft@3000 and it weighs 4800lbs! You could call these Eldo's,Toro's and Riv's luxury muscle cars.
I just re-read Muscle Car Review from March 2000-\they had an article on the pure stock drags for 1999- 70 455 Toro GT vs an AMX 390- The Toro took 2/2 and went 15.713 @86.8 mph. Nice to see a post about the Toronado right after I read this!:laugh:
They were just big ole ugly boats. I used to use one to push fence posts over so I could pull them up. That was the most usefulness I got out of the car. Ifr you ever had to have one repaired, you would spend (drop) a bundle.
Check out this 66 Toronado that Jay Leno customized. Made it rear wheel drive with 1000 hp dual turbo cadillac engine! http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/toronado_shell.shtml
I have always thought that the drum speedometers on the early Toronados were one of the coolest ever invented. Upstaged in Michigan.
I own a '66 Toronado. It is a big heavy car with a lot of muscle, but doesn't fit the definition of muscle car (big engine in intermediate size car). I personally think it's much cooler and more unique than most muscle cars :laugh:
I hate this thread....I got outbid on one a few weeks ago on eBay...Argh! And then I saw the same car when I was visiting my friend in the area the car was for sale, so a local guy bought it.
There is a club for Toronado enthusiasts similar to the Riviera Owners Association - www.toronado.org Not a muscle car, imho, but certainly a very distinctive part of automotive history ! At shows, I still get asked: " Is this thing front wheel drive? " ou: o No: :TU:
Along with the Riviera, I consider them to be luxury muscle. I would love to have one myself. Theres another site devoted to them that I have bookmarked on my home computer. Can't find it off hand now at work. I get asked if my Riviera is FWD also. I've read over the years, and I don't recall what book it was, (75 years of General Motors? Or the book on Rivs by Chris Wolfe?) that the '66 - '70 Riv was originally going to be FWD, but Buick, which was in charge of much of the FWD drive train development felt it wasn't quite ready, so they kept the Riviera RWD. That is one reason they share the body stucture of the Toro and Eldo. Dad owned 2 Toronados a '68 & then a '71. In the '68 he loved to show off how well it did in the snow, driving through unplowed parking lots with snow deep enough that it went 1/2 way up the doors. As a 7-8 year old this was great fun! In high school, it was my turn to show off when driving his '71 by doing the same in snow, and smoldering the front tires out of the school parking lot. :laugh: Back then most weren't aware of FWD, so the looks on people's faces was priceless. I remember that '68 went through CV joint boots like crazy.
