Bummer...I guess since my 70 Skylark's original frame was severely cracked,rusted and no possible way to fix,is now not any good. Since I replaced the frame with a donor frame,hood,windshield as well as decklid and soon fenders,bumpers and doors with glass ones, I now stand to be indicted on fraud charges because the parts from this car aren't number or date code matching. What would the consensus be to this scenario.Take a severely rusted GS,or X for that matter, that needs the work described as Gary says above,but the cowl is not terrible shape. Would it be wrong to remove the cowl and weld it into another clean body and then have a perfect body that the vin didn't belong to from the factory? Or would you just part it out or trash it because its not moral?If anyone says they wouldn't do it to keep a Stage 1 or X alive that it was just wrong,you are either lying to yourself or are trying to fool everyone. In my case, I'd weld that cowl onto a good body in a heartbeat.There is no difference here compared to if the whole floor pan,trunk floor,1/4's or top was replaced. They can cut a cowl section off just as easy.
With this type of rebuild the Vin doesn't get touched...I don't see "The Law" getting into your business with this scenario. :TU:
Hmmm Twist it around any way you want. There is vin #s or part of the vin # in several locations in a 70 gs, frame, trunk opening, fire wall etc. Why do people go out of there way to change or modify these on a rebody or revin? The vin # is a tool used to identify a vehicle or the car its self, the car can only be built once. Buying a rare car that is NOT repairable then transfering all the drive train and vin#s into a mint skylark is nothing more then a clone. I know when I sold my 1970 GS455 that had 1/4s installed it did not bring in as much money as a car that didn't. If restoring cars in fashion doesn't devalue the car then why go out of your way to transfer all these #s and parts over to a skylark???? you and I both know why, its about money, its WAY cheaper then finding NOS body parts and having a HUGE body shop bill. Up here if your car is in a accident and is writen off and it gets rebuilt your registration will declare it as rebuilt. There is know way to keep track of these type of cars and until that changes it will remain illegal. I have no problem with a car that has been back halfed, as long as they didn't mess with the #s stamped in the trunk opening, That way it shows the intention of the person doing the repairs. Think about it guys you woundn't change all those #s if it didn't matter. Chris
Chris,I agree with you on several things but I have another scenario...If you start out with an 11B dated car(70 lets say) and it is way too much to be saved,then find a 11C shell (again 70)thats similar options,IE a/c Pdb etc,One could swap vin numbers andno one would never be able to tell. I do think when you use a 71-72 body shell to make a 70 GSX,it will be obvious to someone who knows what to look for. There are several things that can stand out. My point is there are numbers on these cars,but if you did have to re 1/4 them the chance they could be removed is there thus blowing theories out of the water.I know of guy who bought a 70 GS 455 project from a man who wasn't real educated in our cars. In his attempt to restore(re-painting) the dash and cowl,he inadvertantly removed the rivets and kept them inside his house. He then sold a numbers matching car,with matching drivetrain and all documentation to my friend. Since the tags were removed,what would the opinions on what to do with this car. It had all the body work performed and was all ready to paint,but there is the Vin issue. So does he junk the car??Just curious to see what opinions would be.
This thread got way off base and a great debate insued regarding the issue of a re-badge, re-vin, is it real a real gsx etc etc... Most are talking about 70's which i understand can be proved up by someone if they have vins, or body tag #'s. I recently bought a 71 buick on the assumption it is a GSX. No paperwork could be provided to me it is real, the previous owner to me bought it assuming it was a real gsx. I did as much investigative work as I could by talking to the restoration company and they felt it was a real GSX based on what they saw when it came to them. When I bought the car the seller thought it was worth alot more as a GSX than what I had offered and ultimatly paid, and I felt I had probably paid alittle too much without any original documentation proving it was a real GSX. My purchase decision then had to be largely based on the condition of the car, and my gut feeling about it being a real gsx as I am no expert. I do believe I have a gsx and if people ask me if its real I'll say yes, can I prove it.. no I can't. If someday I decide to sell the car I'll explain to potential buyers i can't prove it to be a real GSX but based on the condition of the car it should still be a good buy for them and possibly will have appreciated in value somewhat. Now for discussion purposes lets say one day someone comes forward with paperwork to prove up the 71 or 72's and we find out we don't own a gsx's although our title says so, is this fraud and should I contact the authorities. My point is whether a car is revin'd or re-body tagged I as a potential purchaser have to understand that if I can't talk to the "little old lady" that I know bought that gsx new there will be some degree of risk whether its the real deal or not, and it may be possible it been re-vined re-tagged etc. even though its against the law. I believe that the cars documentation, its condition and your gut feel should have a large impact on the price you should ultimatly be willing to pay. If somehow you find out down the road you've been somehow screwed should the law then get involved? I don't think so but thats my 2 bits worth? I'm new to this site and definately no expert on gs's but for now proud to be driving, showing and enjoying my 71 gsx untill someone proves otherwise. Gord
No matter what car you buy, it could be a 70 GS or a 2000 Ford Explorer, the bottom line is "buyer beware". There are alot of fakes, wrecks and cobbled together cars out there. You have to know your stuff and do your homework. If you buy a car without any knowledge or research about them, you have nobody to blame but yourself. A fool and his money are soon parted. The 71 GSX is a good example. You base your offer on the car based on the fact that it isnt a GSX. Many people buy these cars with their heart and not with their head. As far as the 71 documentation, I have it on good authority that the 71 microfilm exists. Someone has it and paid a hefty amount for it. Im confident that it will eventually surface in the future. When it does, there will be alot of disappointed people out there.
I'd like to believe you on that. My project looks like this. Original frame and drive train. All numbers match. We gave up on the body. No matter how you looked at it, it was a mess and impossible to save. So I'm going with the idea that having all original drive train with a different body on top still counts as the car underneath. Original frame, engine, trans, rear. Now I understand this is controversial. I was advised to cut at least one inch of metal out of the cowl around the tag to weld it back into the doner car as opposed to rivets. That is supposed to make a difference? That's the part that I don't get. What difference? Lets let the car thieves know this. It sounds important. If nobody wants my car when I'm done because it's missing about 1/4 oz of metal from the old car, so be it. I do expect that it will win respect once it's finished. Despite being pieced back together. Am I the only person piecing a car back together? I don't think so... By the way, the doner car wasn't brand new off the showroom floor either. This is a lot of hard work to fix that body and interior up too, and I hope that most of you who have ever gone through such a thing would appreciate that.
Mike, your to be commended for restoring that car. Anyone else would of parted that car out. Because of you, it will live. The body is a part just like everything else. if done properly with all the right markings, who cares? Could anyone tell? How much of the car needs to be replaced before it ceases to be the same car? Some of these concours restored cars have more reproduction parts on them that original parts. Are they the same cars? The NCRS Corvette judges cant tell the restamped blocks from the originals anymore. They've gotten that good.
