I think i did wrong when i put a 0.005 thinner shim at the pinion. I should have added 0.005 to the shim. Am i right ? Will try tomorrow
Cotrect ypu went the wrong way. You see from your 2 patterns the second is worse. Ypu needed to add shim. Save yourself alot of time buy the 25 ratech tool and actually measure it, once you do you will see exactly what way you need to go and by how much. The way your doing this it could take 4 or 5 times. As you move the pinion farther back towards the ring gear with thicker shims it will reduce your backlash setting some too. That's why I said leave the side shims along cause it should help correct both issues. You need to have about .008 preload on the carrier bearings......but ypu can't measure anything under 0 movement. I like to get the shims on the side bearings close to where I can measure that side to side movement in the 4 or 5 thousands area then I know exactly how much to add to get preload. I simple take my measurements of side movement add my .008 preload wanted, then divide by 2 and but an even amount on both sides. From here I have proper preload and as I adjust backlash you need to keep what you move the side side to side. Meaning if you take a .010 from one side you need to put thst same amount in the other side to keep preload. Now if you have a backlash of .020 and want to get to .007, it's not as simple as taking .013 shim from one side to the other. Normally you need take where ypu want to be from where you are the multiple that number by 75% and that number is the amount of shim ypu move from side to side. To farther complicate things you normally get the exact shims you need to get perfect numbers, so you either have to settle for being really close or order special shims. Just Rembert to keep the shim.packs balanced and once proper preload is set don't change the total thickness of both packs added togetger. And again her sometimes you have no choice but to add 1 or 2 or take away some because of the limit choices of shims. I would rather have my bearing a touch loose on preload than a touch tight Now are you getting proper rotsting torque on the pinion bearings before measuring anything. If using new bearing you should have 20 to 25 inch pounds of rotating torque, not break away. If used bearings 10 to 15. Make sure the bearings have lots of oil And as stated actually install the caps and torque to specs to take backlash measurements. When running a pattern, put some load against the gear set. I take a prybar and pull down on the case to similar some load, all the little things will add up in the end. Remember crush sleeve are 1 time use, so if ypu crushed, removed to change shim it's can't be used. You can test assemble with no crush sleeve to make it easier snd not need a new sleeve each time. Don't over tighten the bearing if test assembling with no crush sleeve. I leave the sleeve and the seal off till final assembly
Thank You. I will add more shim. I have not installed the crusch sleeve and oil seal yet, willl wait as you recommend. Will try without the Ratech tool because i can not get this tool in Norway, have to get it from USA. I have 22 inch pound torque for the new pinion bearings right now. Thanks
Hi The pinion shim is now 0.035" The backlash is 0.089" Please see pictures of gear patteren. Is this close to where i want to be ? Thanks
That looks alot better to me. The pattern shows up better in the orange than the yellow. I like to paint like 5 teeth and judge the pattern not so much an the teeth I painted but on the other teeth where it leaves the paint. Sometimes I will spend 5 or 10 mins turning to get a good imprint on all the teeth. Hopefully you can see the major difference between the first to second, then to this time. Looks to have nice center contact on both the drive and cost sides, and centered in the tooth top to bottom. Should be good enough.
your using WAY too much marking compound. Please do not use all of it your very far away to get more. Squirt oil / gear oil a bit on the teeth and go around 5-10 times and see what you get both ways. You need to see ALL the teeth not just 4-5 this will let yuou know if you have run out in the gear as the pattern will move around if you do. If the pattern stays same spot on all the teeth you run out is good...zero or minimal. Jim
you can not just jump all over the place with your shims either. Your making more work here. .030 probably is the spot. This .035 is way too deep it is very hard in the valley of the tooth on coast and drive side... more oil will make the compound move across the tooth so you can see where it is actually swiping and whether it is even or not.
everything you do on the differential needs to stay consistent so you can see where your going with the pattern. here is an example of what were are kind of looking for.
Thanks Pinion shim history: I started With the stock shim at 0.027 and then by a mistake 0.020, and now 0.035. I will try 0.030 and not so much marking compound
more oil and spin the ring around and around both ways many times. YOU have to see what the other teeth are doing too. I actually had a gear set where ONE tooth NEVER touched the the pinion???? compound never came off no matter how many times I went around...ALL the others were perfect... Just looks like they cut that tooth twice on the machine...lol. DEFECT!
Hi The pinion shim are now0.030 and are tighten with 19 inch pound of preload. The backlash is 0.009. Carrier shim are: right 0.240 and left 0.243. I think the carrier preload are to loose, i can slide it about half or 3/4 in and i use a rubber hammer to get it in place. Please see pictures of gear pattern. Thanks
Brian, please explain why you would put a thicker shim in when the pattern is deep in the tooth on the drive side. I would definitely try to tighten up the backlash and see if that brings the drive side pattern up. When I look at the first .027 shim it did not look absolutely correct on the coast side.... BUT also it was his first shot at setting up a rear and things may not have been correct like he has been doing. I would say the .027 -.028 is the correct shim...I think he just did not have the carrier tight enough or the backlash correct etc. Again this is a learning experience for the Buick guys and if Eivind has the time i am sure will all see what it does. I do not want to keep making him change all different stuff with everyone inputting to the poor guy. So I will bow out and will see what happens - Eivind if you need help I am here at the personal email we have been conversing... I just do not want to confuse the heck out of everyone especially you with all the different help. The green is a bit hard on the pattern hit...the red area is too light it should be swiping more. Which Normally indicates too deep or too little backlash. So with out being able to actually check over the set-up to see what is going on we are kind of all guessing and trying to get this pattern in ASSUMING you have everything else correct. So for learning perposes try to just tighten the backlash to .007 to see what happens this way people can learn why backlash consistency needs to be for dialing in the pattern. Jim J D
The drive side has a pretty thorough swipe,but to me,it looks like the drive is running off the end,and the opposite on the coast,which is characteristic of the pinion being too far away. Are these gears new or used? I guess I should have started with that question first. It would be a little quicker/easier to tighten up the backlash,since you only need to remove the carrier. If you have a .245/.238 combination,try that. What were the settings with that pattern with the sticky orange compound?
Thanks for responding Please tell me the correct way to check pinion preload. Alt 1: Tighten nut, and use the inch pound dial tool. Alt 2: turn the pinion/yoke by hand and then put the inch pound tool to the nut while i am turning. There are a huge difference in result.
I use an inch pound tool on the nut. The reading will spike high when you first start.....dnot worry about that, just keep an even turning motion going and read it as its actually turning. You are measuring rotating torque I f just the pinion bearings. No carrier, no axles, no seals. The drive side to je still seems to walking off the end to me too. The cost pattern when your were at 35 and the orange paint looked better to me. Did you get the carrier preload figured out. If not that will need to done before a final pattern can be run. It's normal to have to tap the shims in place some. I use a brass dift and lightly tap. You should need a pry bar to help lift the carrier back up and out As I stated before sometimes the pattern on the teeth with paint looks differant. I like to read the teeth that the paint transfers too rather than the teeth with paint on them. This takes alot of turning to get a good transfer but it'd the best way to read all the teeth.......as stated sometimes not all the teeth are perfectly cut, and the pattern moves around some from tooth to tooth, nothing you can do about that. But if you only looking at a few teeth, it's hard to tell that. The teeth in pattern 1 might not be the same teeth used in othe patterns. If ypu turn and turn and turn. Ypu will get the picture all the way around. The same hold true for backlash. As you measure on one tooth, turn it 1/3 away around measure again it might be slightly differant. Take it 3 or 4 places to see the big picture and figure out an average. I have had to run some sets as tight as 005 to get the correct pattern even though the specs says not to go that tight. The specs are a good aim but the gears will tell you what they want to be at. With this being a used set who knows what they were set at before......so you could get a perfect pattern and it still make noise cause it might not match the previous setup
Here are a few pics from the last one set up. All theses teeth are non painted teeth that the marking transfered too. When I paint teeth I paint all the teeth way down in the valley, the very tops and the ends so I can easily identify which ones I painted. In the first and second pic if you look at the tooth right at case level ypu will see the very end does not have the same contact pattern. On fact no paint transfers to it. That tooth was not made the same as the others. In fact this set of gears has 3 or 4 teeth that did that. But I would had not known it if I only checked pattern on the few painted teeth. This is why I spend tons of time turning both directions to get this transfer pattern cause it really shows me a better picture of what going on. If I would had painted that tooth by luck it would had never shown up this way. I use as little of paint as possable. I also pull my paint from the valleys up on both faces, this leaves little brush strokes going up those teeth and makings running any other directions I know was contact of some kind. Hope this helps
Looks pretty good to me. Nice complete peak to valley. The compound comes off even at the heel ... what did you end up with on the pinion shim and the backlash? Everything is lighter as the complete tooth is hitting now and spreading the pattern out...no harsh hammer spots like the other patterns. IF you throw a bunch of oil on the teeth and spin it should clean almost all the compound off. How does the spin feel? Jim J D RAce
