When economics makes monkeys of us all (Re: everyone is happy now) Dear Michael and V-8 Buick victims of modern economics, I would like to be sympathetic, but I really can't be. Restoring a car is much more a labor of love than a strategic operation. The guy working on a car needs a part - when he is about to install it. Most of us are pack-rats and have some parts ahead of when they are needed, but if we had to buy everything as soon as it is produced that would change our role from end customer to warehouse - that's just plain wrong. Part of the cost of doing business is the cost of storing the item until the customer actually want to buy it. It has been this way for centuries and businesses cannot try to shift that burden to the customer without a serious backlash. I don't want to blame this particular company, but I do believe we are in a period of institutionalized cheating. Companies across the economy are finding way to cut costs at the expense of the customer. Once some companies break social contracts, others are forced to follow in order to survive. I don't want to burden you'all with a lot of heartfelt philosophy, but I think we all know the problems we face aren't simply because of another "seasonal downturn." At the risk of offending a lot of you, I think we all recognize that free-market capitalism isn't all that different from Darwin's principle of the survival of the fittest. It is fundamentally the wrong mechanism to bring out the best in human beings. Survival is a far cry from happiness and if the only hope we ever have is to accumulate enough money to survive - pursuits like restoring old cars will invariably be driven to extinction because they lack any practical economic value. We should do what we can to help this industry limp along as much as we personally can do. Yet, if that's all we do, we are simply dinosaurs pursuing our extinction. Once in a while you need to ask those hard questions about what makes human existence hopeful. There was a time when the crudities of our economic system were held in check by our moral character. That morality founded in turn on an ideal that human beings were something divine in creation, not merely some sort of overgrown monkey. I urge you all to take a deeper perspective on such things. To remain focused on some particular part of our lives is to fail to see how everything is interconnected. It isn't saving one supply of parts that will make the difference in our lives. At least for me, the task of restoring my old wagon is most bittersweet. For as my wagon comes back to life, I see the region where it has lived for 40+ years falling apart at the seams. Edouard
Some of you have got the point others lets start over. When parts become available some people say oh now they have those I will wait till I need them to buy. In the Chevy world a new part was introduced and it was nearly sold out in months. Obviously Buick owners are fewer than Chevy ones. But even with that when a Buick guy throws a part out they take decades to sell. People like TA or cars or year 1 and yes even me will only want to make the next part if they sell and sell quickly. I'm setting on 800 console lids for 68-9 consoles ok how do I sell them? I am small time and I have 30k in inventory setting at any time. Anyone want some of it? What about mark and cars with 100s of thousands in inventory? It's partly the economy but ever since I've made the first part even Buick owners aren't as ready to buy and store parts like other Branders do. My point is ....if Buick parts become available people need to jump up and get them bought ASAP or they will go away as fast. I like the comment about 350 heads too btw. It's all to true in my world ....
Some of the makers of repro parts have required sufficient advance order deposits before they commit to go to production......maybe this is the way it will have to be in the future. o No: John
When these first came out I stocked up on these parts just in case I might need them later. So its a good thing that I did now
You hit the nail on the head, I have noticed in the forsale sections on here things are not moving even though they are price well. I use to get $400 for my reworked BBB timing covers and now I can't hardly move them for $300, I most likely won't be selling them any more makes no sence to give them away.
i read lots of bad reviews for then and now right here on this board - maybe thats real problem - not that people dont buy the parts.
Then & Now? Im not sure about that but I get everything I order from T&N and the parts I have used are completely bad ass. I have installed everyone of the parts they sell and I will tell you the patch panel 1/4s have NOTHING on the full 1/4s that Mark sells. I put the last one on with only a cup of body filler do that with those tiawan 1/2 panels.
and after that the next thread i read is http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?252600-71-GS-Repo-Grille-Beware-Problems-The-Parts-Place ---------- Post added at 09:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 PM ---------- and then http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?256879-At-my-wits-end quality workmanship and a fair price and good service is what sells ---
Show me someone selling '66 quarters and I'll buy some.At least you guys had the chance to buy something made for your cars.I guess I'll be hammering out mine and learning bodywork at the same time.Not everyone owns a 70-72 :laugh:
Mark Reeves was selling his quarters at the GS Nationals yesterday for $400.00 each. Everyone sitting at home in their lazyboy that were ever gonna need some lost out on a hell of a deal !!! Peace WildBill
Building something to sell because a bunch of people say they will buy it is naive. This is the real world and just because people say they will buy something doesn't mean they will or that they can. I don't know what to say about the original post, other than it seems childish and non productive. Bob H.
I am very sorry that you feel this way. Perhaps if visionaries such as James Watt, Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Albert Einstein, et al,. had felt similarly, we'd all still be living in caves or under rocks, be chasing our food on foot, and trying to not be eaten by larger, faster four legged animals. ou: The point here is that if nobody takes any chances, humanity would probably have not lived this long, period. If I had a need for these parts, or even the remote chance of needing them, I would have bought them. Should reproduction full panels ever become available for 64-65 Skylarks, you can bet I would be in for at least one pair.
X 3. I didn't even read much past this post. You act like it's the Buick owners fault. People don't have money right now and many many of the people with some cash aren't in need of those parts right now. It does suck that they couldn't make it building Buick parts but it's hardly the fault of the people who own the cars. Most don't have the expendable income right now and some lots of us don't have a 70 - 72 car to put the cars on. It's a huge risk to make these parts and it's unfortunate that they probably didn't get the investment back but it's not like it's the fault of the Buick community. I would be willing to bet that the Chevelle part market is WAY down in the last 4 or 5 years. Sometimes life sucks. It's that simple. I know that it sucks even more for peole that make a living restoring Buicks. Business is going to go way down with the added cost. More cars will be cut up to give life to other cars. That is what being into non mainstream cars is though.
A few years ago, it seemed everyone was doing frame off restos on thier cas. I remember Mark at T&N cranking them out like crazy. I think at one time he had like 3 or 4 going at one time.
This really makes no sense to me. On one hand Mike is telling us how the parts out there are going to double in price, and Bill tells us that the guy who has them, is having a bargin basement sale. You do math on what that means. JW
I don't know if this has anything to do with this thread,but here goes....... I think I'm feeling like Jim and WildBill on this, and I can see both sides of what is being discussed here. In the last 12 years,I have done several restorations building Pure Stock Race cars, buying,restoring,racing,selling, then moving on to the next car with the proceeds from the last sale.I spent ALOT on resto parts. In the last 4 years, I lost a job of 20 years,spent 9 months unemployed,then 1 1/2 years UNDER employed,and now I am coming up on 1 year anniv at the best job I've ever had making the most money I've ever made,AND i'M BROKE!!!!! You see, in the last 4 years, gas has more than doubled,groceries have doubled,cost of clothes for 2 kids that grow out of everything in a couple months,etc,etc,etc. My wage did not double. I have a 64 Chevelle that needs 2 full quarters, and I have been saving a little out of my check every week for the last 9 months, and I still don't have the $800 for the pair of full quarters. I have a friend who is a paint rep for DuPont, so I can get all my materials from him at cost, and even then the materials to refinish a car are out of sight. I sit and start putting numbers together on materials,interior,bumpers,trim,engine,trans,rear,exhaust,etc. And it really doesn't make economic sense to restore a car anymore, EVEN if you can do ALL the work yourself!!!! I can buy a really nice car done for less than I can build one in this current economy, but I would have to get a loan and take on a payment, and I can't(won't) do that, so I have to build as I get the cash over time. I got off track a bit, but back to the 70-72 GS quarters. I don't know what the advertised cost was, but I bet you would sell quite a few more at $400 ea. then you can at 800-1000ea. I never saw where pricing a repro item at the same price NOS goes for on ebay,being a good idea(people are paying 1500 ea for NOS on ebay,so I'll sell these new ones for 1200ea.) I don't know all the facts, but I own a 72 Stage1 with my wife that doesn't need quarters, but I would think about hanging a pair on the barn wall if the price was affordable. Scare tactics don't sell parts, reasonable prices do. Coker tire,and Kelsey tire are famous for this BS, they make a post every couple months warning of an upcoming tire price increase to try to scare people into buying a set NOW. Sorry,that doesn't work. If you want to sell me something, you have to make the price attractive. How about, buy 3 at full price, and get 1 free or half price, or buy 4 and get the fifth free, or buy 4 and get free shipping. You have to do something that makes me feel like I'm getting a deal to get me to open my wallet. My point is that the entire restoration parts market is probably hurting, and I think you are going to start seeing LOTS of sales and deals trying to entice people into spending. 0% of 0 is zero, meaning no sales is NO money. I would rather sell something for a little less and move it, then go bankrupt cutting my nose off to spite my face. Time for a reality check, accept the way the new ugly world we live in is(this ain't 2008 anymore), make changes to survive,or you will struggle and fail. Sorry,rant over.
I wonder if Mark is just trying to move a wack of those parts in hopes the manufacture will change there mind and keep making the parts?
I would love to buy all the parts to do a restoration up front. It's just not realistic. Many of us restore our cars over time, a long time. Buying stuff just to have it is like saying I should buy a hot water heater because mine will eventually fail and I'll need it. I buy what I need when I need it and can afford it. As far as putting out money for producing parts. 800 console lids for 68-69 doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I'm no business expert, but 68-69 seem to be one of the less popular Buicks out there. I would find it hard to believe that there are anywhere near 800 guys redoing 68-69's. I have a 65 and paid a mint for many of my parts. That being said, I'm starting work on a car for my wife. It's a 63 Nova. The parts are available and I can afford them. I'm betting that it'll be as nice as my Buick at about half the price.
