Yes. I'm not the world's best mechanic by a long shot, but I'm fuzzy on how the main bearing bits got past the pickup strainer, my oil filter, into the pump, and up into the top end o No:All the lifters are so full of oil (still!) that I have yet to succesfully open one up. I'm going to rig up a tool in my drill press, maybe, and use the mechanical advantage of the press. Also considering a small bore needle and syringe to suck the oil out
If it can get somewhere .... it will get there. Did you use a stethoscope or a long screwdriver to listen for your noise yet? I know from all the other posts in this thread youve tried everything,maybe youve chased it so much its something obvious. Its happened to me before ,its happened to everybody. It looks like the next step,after rechecking..is to buy a new set of lifters. By the way ...what cylinder head are you running now..I saw aluminum ..what kind? Thanks...fish
OK, this is actually funny by now I can't depress a single lifter's plunger. I have a single un-used lifter, and can depress it easily, so I know both the tool I made (very highly polished steel bar machined down and chromed) and the pushrod I have will do it The ones from my engine, all 16 are like rocks. They have sat upside down since Monday. Each is in it's own little baggie, and the baggies each have about a teaspoon of oil in them. And yet, I cannot depress a plunger. I have used a syringe to try and extract oil. No dice Now, I know from personal experience at work, that I can put 85 pounds of pressure on a knife blade (controlled experiment at work) with one hand, using pressure from just the shoulder, and yet I am not Man enough to depress these flippin lifters while hunched bodily over them, using all my weight and both hands :laugh:
Not a single one. Not the 15 aftermarket ones, or the single NOS lifter I needed for the oversize O.D. I could understand it if they were full of oil...
Chris, It is not very likely that you will be able to compress the lifter by hand. The oil under the lifter plunger has "hydro locked" it. Usually, you carefully remove the retaining clip and the lifter will pop partially open. Use a small screwdriver the work the retainer around to remove it. Don't let it fly off and get lost. Next remove the pushrod cup and flat plate. This will expose opening in the lifter plunger. At the base of the lifter plunger is the check valve an spring assembly. You may need to get a thin nail or allen wrench to unseat the check valve as you remove the plunger. This will relieve any pressure and prevent any vacuum being created as you remove the plunger. The lifter will now be apart. It would be a good idea to remove the check valve retainer/spring and ball (some lifters have a flat plate) for cleaning as well. Once cleaned, the lifter should go together a little easier if you DON'T fill them with oil. Lightly lubricate them and let the oil drlp off. If the plunger won't go all the way down, you may need to unseat the check valve again as you assemble it. Hope this gives you something to go on. Good Luck, Mark
Thanks, Mark That's all I've been trying to do- remove the clip. I got one partially removed, and I cannot get the bugger back in. I literally almost flipped the table over and I can't get that clip off, or even back on :laugh: I have all weekend to wrestle with it. I haven't ruled out using a moment arm, like on my drill press. Trouble is, the drill press is and always will be 'dirty' and I don't want to use it. My arbor press is an hour away and the small one at work is, well, at work...and I'm not I'll give it another go after dinner
OK, I laid the NOS one on it's side with the hole down, after i thought about how it worked a minute. Clip came off, no springing Now, the check valve is a ball, and it is seated in a shaped pocket, and there has got to be a spring under it. Unseating it=damage. I tried to get at it from underneath; I can see it. But forcing it will scratch it. Cleaned everything, no debris, as I imagined- it's NOS after all
On NOS GM lifters, the check ball and spring are in a tapered seat that fits into the lifter spring at the bottom of the lifter. The tapered seat usually has splits in it that snap into the base of the plunger. This holds the check ball and spring seated in the plunger. Using light pressure should not damage the check ball and spring. To remove the seat from the plunger, you should be able to apply pressure sideways to the seat and it should snap off the plunger. Assemble it by snapping it back onto the plunger. Some aftermarket lifters do not use a check ball. They have a flat metal plate that the spring seats against the plunger. It is very possible that this type of design is what may cause some lifters to tick. Any minor debris between the plate and the plunger can cause it to not fully seat against the plunger. This can cause a bleed off of oil and it may tick. The check ball type used non OEM lifters can still have a problem, but by its design it is more likely to seat against the plunger (my opinion). Mark
The aftermarket ones are the same type as the NOS one- check ball in a tapered seat I set them all on their side and they will come apart now
Call me crazy, but if they're fully pumped all this time they're trying to tell you something. Lifters are saying, "Hey Chris. We're fine! Please don't take us apart. If you do there may be trouble." ....and yes I believe cars, car parts and machines do talk. You just have to know how to listen. :laugh:
Yes, I had thought of that, Andy- what I'm seeing so far means the lifters are OK. I am going to disassemble only the passenger side lifters and inspect. Then- new pushrods. I have to beleive that if one looks slightly flat on one end, then that's a problem they all might have soon- plus- if one is worn enough to appear flat, how many thousandths of an inch is missing off every other end- but doesn't appear flat to the eye? With my rockers, I must get the preload right, not 'close enough' I am beginning to think it's pushrod/rocker problems, but i want to fix this once :TU:
So- from all this I can assume the lifters are pumping up- and staying pumped up When i ran the engine without the valve covers, I wasn't getting drenched in oil- but I did have a lot of clean up from oil spray, even with a deflector. Personally, I think that the oil squirt from the pushrods just isn't a water pistol effect, but I have basis for comparison- never had any oiling problem until Black Thursday last September, so I never ran it with the covers off before. Plenty of oil pooling in the heads, it came from somewhere So now, it seems it's pushrod/rocker. I have a couple lifters left to do Does anyone know the manufacturer that uses the OEM style lifter I seem to have? Is it Delphi? Can anyone comment on what i should or shouldn't consider during inspection? For example: I can see either an "8" or a "B" stamped inside the lifter. What's it mean?
It wont be skeeting oil but it should be enough where you can watch it flowing from the top of the rocker with a hydraulic. I kinda think it would be just enough to cool the springs but not flow so much it gathers faster than the return holes can flow. What is Black Thursday? fish
10-4 Copy that..fish I got enough days I incurred engine damage to make a year...does that make me a masochist
>>....Does anyone know the manufacturer that uses the OEM style lifter I seem to have? Is it Delphi?...>> The check ball type should be either Eaton or Delphi (used to be Rochester). If you got then from TA recently, it's probably the latter.
I got them in August of last year, installed 'em in October They all look good. Now I'm worried I'm not oiling the top end as well as I should be. I'll have to get it back together and find out. I am unsure if I can be making such good oil pressure (25 psi @ 650 rpm hot) with oil galleys clogged though o No: My gut says "no"
rocker arms need very little oil and rollers need even less. In circle track racing engines you limit the oil to the valves with the holes in the pushrods. This is done to keep oil from draining onto the crankshaft, which takes power away. This is the first reason that roller rockers were used (credit, Smokey Yunick) If at idle, you can see the oil flowing into the rocker, it's fine. If I had a doubt I'd visually confirm each one. The only time I had a problem with this, it was a high mileage, abused engine and the push rods were clogged with sludge. Are any of the needle bearings or rollers damaged? Have you seen evidence of a lack of oil at the rockers?
