Hi all, Doing some research and was wondering why in 65 & 66 Buick used T-10's in high performance applications vs Chevrolet, Pontiac & Oldsmobile used Muncie's Were Muncie's in limited supply or did Buick know better using special T-10's with higher nickle gears? Any in site would be great, Jim
The non-GS 4 speeds in 65 were T-10's as well. They used a different gearset. In all my 65 literature nothing spells out a reason why they used the T-10. Mark
That's a good question Jim! I suspect it had something to do with the max torque rating of the first Muncies, as compared to the T-10. With the GS's hardened gearset, Buick was apparently concerned with the strength of the trans. Early Muncies used a 7/8" cluster gear shaft, upgraded to 1" for 1966. So even GM had strength concerns. I still question why Buick used a close-ratio trans behind the torqey Nailhead in the GS. A wide ratio would utilize the wide powerband much better.
Remember the 65 GS came out with the 401 fitted in there from the big cars! Buick had designed the 401 + 4-speed to work in the 63 Wildcat. That drivetrain was set up to handle the big car's weight & power, so the transmission got a HD iron case and high nickel content gears in 63. That carried on to 64 and 65 Wildcats. Then the Skylark GS got the good stuff from the Wildcat genes. It was a mid year intro- catching up to Pontiac GTO
Ive pulled 2 out of 4 door wildcats and they both had the skylark type trans in them,,even said GS on the tail.....ya..i parted 2 65 wildcat 4 doors when i was a kid......old guy had them both, and i robbed the nail head stuff to put in skylarks..pretty dumb...
nope, 2.2 first gear, really depended on the Buick low end torque to get them off the line. I've had 2 rebuilt with new gears, NOS high nickel W-I-D-E ratio to try to improve the staring line ratio of the big Wildcat. Now which one should I put the 3.91 gears in...hmmm:grin:
Ouch! I prefer to think of the GS Skylarks having the Wildcat type transmission- after all, the Wildcats were first...'63 :grin:
Glad to see I got a discussion going as this has always made me wonder, I thought that only close ratio GS transmission had the higher nickel gears as the wide ratios I have seen and have in my 4 door has a different tail housing not the "GS" one and would assume they were normal fare. I also had heard that the "GS" close ratio gears were wider is this true? And does this hold true for the wide ratio gears, and are they still available and is it the same as the Buick one (2:54 first gear) or were they the more commonly seen AMC gears (2:64 first) Thanks for the insight and info, Jim
Jim, You are right the 64-65 Skylarks had the wide ratio T-10. Cast iron case and aluminum tailhousing with no GS. The input and output shaft splines are different as well. See my "Sticky on SBB 4 speeds" above for the details on this trans. The 65 GS had the close ratio T-10 with the cast iron case and aluminum GS tailhousing with the high nickel gear sets. The input shaft also has rings around it. Cant recall the number. Not sure what the Wildcats had. Brian Stone has a 64 Skylark 4 speed and a 65 GS 4 speed and has been through the transmissions of both. He is very knowledgable on 4 speed cars. He probably could shed some light on this subject.
Even Olds 442s had different first gear 4 speed ratios between 65 and 66 models. From an imperfect memory 65s had a 2.56 whereas a 66 has a 2.52. Both years had Muncie trans. but the speedo drives were on opposite sides.
The 1965 wide ratio Muncie used a 7/8" cluster pin and had a different tooth count 24tooth input/29tooth cluster... the 1966 wide ratio Muncie used a 1" cluster pin and 21tooth input/25tooth cluster... That one of the many differences between 1965 and 1966Muncie 4speeds... Being that this thread is about T-10 in early A-body Buicks, I bought out a trans shop in Chicago many years ago and in the mix were several new Hurst shifters marked 1965-66 Buick GS w/T-10, still in the box, install sheet, warrentee cards, complete if anyones interested... Also have several 23 spline T-10 trans yokes... Crash
Broke one of them T-10's right in half in the car (my red 65GS) on a power shift ! pilot shaft and all them gears layin all over da ground OY !! what a mess
One NOS set purchased from Larry D & D transmission http://www.dandltransmission.com/muncie.html The other set purchased from (and trans rebuilt by) Dennis Maroudas @ DME :3gears:
