Removal and replacement of timing chain

Mark i'll bet you 1 beer of your choice, but the thing is you have to wait 5 years for it. :Brow: You up for it?

Got a snap-on puller for the harmonic balancer, all my craftsman tools made hissing noises when i brought it in.....still wondering why. :laugh: Also got some PB Blaster and engine degreaser to clean it up a bit. Alternator bracket, power steering bracket, upper and lower a/c brackets were put in the parts washer today at school. Came out great and my auto teacher it letting my sandblast them there. :grin: Tomorrow I work.....but not at work, on my car for once. :3gears:

 

Rob,
I can wait for the beer. :Brow: You shouldn't need a puller for the balancer as it should come out by hand in most cases. You did remove the big washer behind the balancer bolt, right? There is always a thick washer under the bold. No puller in the world will get the balancer off if you didn't as the puller will push against the washer and not the crank.
Hope all goes well,

Mark

 

The pulleys are still on the crank. Once I remove the 4 nuts holding on the pulleys there will be a crank bolt? Wait, the crank bolt is in the center of the pulleys?

 

Ok, the lower pulley has 6 bolts that hold it on. In the center of the balancer is a BIG bolt, want to say 1 1/8 inch socket, that you need to remove in order the get the balancer off. Under that large bolt is a thick flat washer that is used to secure the balancer. The bolt and washer must be removed in order to get the balancer off. Most times, a puller is not necessary.
A trick to getting the big nut off is to remove the pulley. Get a large breaker bar with the correct socket on the bolt with the bar either on the ground or against the frame. Then just tap the key and the rotation of the motor will break the bolt loose. You want the breaker bar secure and not swinging around when you do this. It also needs to be perpendicular to the crank so that it won't slip off the bolt. Give it some thought and it will be clear what you need to do.
An air gun will work too, but needs to be a strong one as the bolt is at 200 ft/lb minimum. It may also be difficult to get the gun in there with the motor in the car.

Mark

 

Alright. Radiator and cover is out along with pulleys. The harmonic balancer bolt will not break loose. Any ideas? o No: Feel free to call also. 630-890-6557

 

Got the harmonic balacer bolt, washer and harmonic balancer off!. 5 out of ten timing cover bolts are out and not broken. 1 that i had trouble with has a setion of threads that rusted together and all along the smooth part of the bolt. 5 to go, wish me luck!

Also, when removing harmonic balancer dont put pinky finger inbetween that and steering linkage. :rant: ou: :laugh:

P.S. PB blaster > all

 

1 bolt to go. Still being stubborn, one that goes through the water pump and into the block. None of the other bolts have broken.

 

Alright. That 1 last bolt is partially out, maybe out about 9/16. The head is stripped and it will turn. I put the other bolts of the same size in to see weather it was still in the threads or not and it is not. So now i have to pull, whats a good way to do this?

 

By last bolt I presume you mean the last bolt that goes through the timing cover and/or water pump. And did you get the hidden bolt on the cover near the bottom passenger side? I've seen covers broken because guys forgot that bolt. I'd start by clamping some Vise Grips on the bolt under the head of the boltand using a hammer to tap the bolt out. If it's stuck in the cover real good the cover may come off with the bolt still in it. If it does then you can drive out the bolt from the back of the cover.

Dave Berry

 

Im done, but it took 12.5 hours. I left the last bolt as is because i checked the length with the other bolts i had already removed and figured out the threads are no longer in the block but in the timing cover. The last thing that hung me up was the bolt on the passenger side oil pan. Covered in grease, grime, dirt so i kept looking right over it. ou: AND most of all.......(drumroll please) none of the bolts broke off in the block! :grin:

Now for the fun stuff. :Brow: My timing chain comes right off for easy removal. uzzled: It appears as though where the camshaft gear mounts, the bolts snapped clean off. Or undid themselves and the bolts fell down. Kinda half asleep here so i dont remember what happened ten minutes ago or what i should have looked for. :error: :laugh: Thanks for everyones help, here and on the phone. :TU: :beer

After radiator cover, radiator, pulleys and harmonic balancer assembly came off.

Anybody want a nice, removable timing chain? $50 :moonu:

Straight enough right?

Im contamplating parts washing and then sandblasting this. Is it safe for aluminum? I will repaint it for sure. Not entirely sure what i have to do to R & R the timing cover. o No:

 

Do not sand blast aluminum, it will eat up the surface. I'd just parts wash it then go over it with lacquer thinner, which cleans everything. Don't know if anyones mentioned it or not but you need to check the area of the cover behind the water pump. This area can have corrosion which can eat right through the cover. Nice pics, I notice you've got the one indispensible tool that every mechanic needs, hammer!

Dave

 

Looks like you had a lot of fun there. :rant: Appears that the timing chain/gears have been replaced before as the cam gear does not look original. Suggest you look at the camshaft to see if the two bolt heads snapped off.
My guess is that the bolts just came loose and fell off (didn't figure on this one as they should have used loctite on the threads). Not a good thing, but maybe not too terrible. If they fell off, they could have worked their way into the pan or be stuck on the #1 main journal cap. Get the chain and crank gear off and take a look.
If they broke off, the ends are stuck in the cam and need to be removed. Drilling and tapping is impossible with the cam still in the motor. Easy-outs may work.
Either way, you need to check on possible damage to the pistons from the cam stopping if the motor was running. Can't recall if you said it was running or you were just cranking it over when this happened.
Things need to be checked before suggestions can be made at this point. The question of where the bolts (or bolt heads) are needs to be answered. Also, it looks like the timing chain job was not done properly. The question of why it was replaced and if there are plastic pieces in the oil pan may be an issue.
Hopefully someone didn't just replace the chain/gears and leave the chunks in the pan.
As to cleaning the timing cover, NO sandblasting. Part washer fluid or mineral spirits is the way to go. You can get mineral spirits at Walmart if you need some.
The next problem will be getting the 6 bolts (1 under the oil filter) that hold the oil filter cover on the timing cover. Looks like you got enough grease there, but they still could be rusted in. Soak them well in PB blaster and try to get them out. The often stick in the housing and the heads snap off.
Sorry, but you've got some work ahead of you.

Good Luck,
Mark

 

Dave,
The chassis manual doesn't use the word hammer. The correct definition is to use a "suitable tool". :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Mark

 

Hammer = Engineers screwdriver :Brow: :Brow:

 

Timing chain.

Well it does not look too bad. The camshaft gear looks ok. Is the timing chain gear plastic.... From what i can see its a steel one. Well check the bolt threads on on the camshaft and see if the bolts broke off or just came loose and fell out. If they broke off that might not be a good sign of things to come..... If they came loose and fell out it might be as simple as putting the cam back in time and installing the bolts back in with lock tight". I would still pull the oil pan and clean it out. Good luck on the venture.

Billy.

 

Rob,

I would definately recommend an impact wrench. Not sure if your project is at school or at home. The hammering effect of an impact wrench will zip that baby right off, as long as it's a good wrench and you have an excellent air source, of course the new electric impacts are also pretty impressive and should tackle the job.

My old shop teacher used to let the trustworthy students borrow the expensive tools with the understanding that we would use them immediately and return them just as fast.

Pretty cool to see you are working on projects like this at the age of 15! Reminds me of all the old cars I used to work on in Auto shop. It's even more amazing that you have a forum like this to use as a reference as you go along. I think our school had just gotten the internet my Senior year (1994) Not to mention there sure wasn't much on the 'net back then either. Other than a buch of stuffy college professors. Opps! sorry to get so side tracked.

 

Steam clean the motor first next time.

You have enough sludge there to lubricate a small block chevy.... :laugh:

Billy.

 

12.5 hrs.....if this is your first major repair....thats not bad at your age(or any age)...its better 2 go slow....I bet you the next timing chain would take you 3-4 hrs....of course with no bolt problems....

..anyways find your bolts with threads......check pan....and its a good time 2 clean up that grime and maybe detail the compartment a bit...

 

Rex, you mean to tell me the BCA doens't add points for that? :laugh: Your welcome to come on over and dig in! :moonu:

Next, this week i will be running a check to see if i have leaks in the valves.