Removal and replacement of timing chain

Well I got started on the timing chain replacement and tune-up for my 455. Thanks again Dana, & Bruce for walking me through the fan/clutch removal. :bglasses: :beer

First and most importantly was to disconnect and remove battery. Drained the radiator, all was green. Removed upper and lower radiator hoses. The lower one from the water pump to the lower end of the raidator had a spring the diameter of the hose that fits inside the hose and water pump. What is it and what does it do? Next removed fan, clutch and pulleys. Followed by the fan shroud, smog pump and alternator. I didnt get as much done as i'd like but i will remove the radiator, power steering pump and possibly water pump sometime soon. I managed to get 3 of the water pump bolts loose without breaking them. :grin: Also, my Electras fan gave me a kiss across my right index finger. :laugh: All in all it was a good day.

Some before and after of today.

After

Lower radiator hose

Electra

 

Adam,
what process did you use for re-painting all those parts on the '60? Sand blast? Wire wheel? Is pb blaster expensive? Thanks :beer

 

Rob

Your doing it right, get all the advice you can and follow all instructions to the letter, experiance is the best teacher. First engine I ever rebuilt I went by the advice I'd get from the old boys at work, and when I was done had a 3/8 fine thread nut left over in the coffee can. No plastic sandwich bags in those days. Looked like a rodbolt nut so I pulled the pan and they were all there, buttoned it back up and she ran fine. Still wonder where that nut came from. o No:

Dave Berry

 

Thanks Adam. :TU: High temp paint from Eastwood should work? Or equal Krylon high temp? Do i need to degrease most of the parts? o No:

Dave,
Thanks. Im trying to take everything nice a slow even though i really want to get it rolling. I can already see that the bolts for the timing chain and water pump will be a problem. Im only missing one of the shroud bolts and thats it, it might have fallen down elsewhere when i was removing the fan & clutch assembly. I'll keep you updated. :3gears:

 

Some things I do to help if you ever have to do it again are:
Anti-sieze on the water pump bolts and on the un-threaded part of the long bolts. This prevents them from getting stuck in the cover. Use some type of gasket sealer on the threads of the timing cover bolts as most (if not all) go into the water jacket of the block. This prevents leaks. Indian head gasket shellac or permatex (#2, I think) will do as well.
It would also be a good idea to use loctite blue or red on the 2 bolts that hold the cam gear. Make sure all the threads are clean (laquer thinner or brake clean) and apply the loctite to the bolts before torquing them. Sure would hate to have them come loose.
Use some blue RTV on the corners of the timing cover where it seals to the oil pan. The gasket kit should include the front part of the pan gasket and you want to make sure it doesn't leak where it attaches to the old part of the gasket.
Tighten the cover bolts down before trying to put in the 4 pan bolts that go into the cover. This should line the cover up to the pan and make getting them in easier. Aluminum covers cross thread easily.
Get a good front seal and install it properly. Rope seals are difficult to install and the rubber front seals need to be installed correctly. Don't forget the oil slinger on the crank.
Change the oil before start up, good chance you got coolant in the oil when you removed the cover.
Just my 2 cents,
Mark

 

Can i remove the cover with the water pump still attached to it? Or are there bolts that go through the water pump into the block? Going to go remove it now. Also, where do I take antifreeze? o No:

 

Found out i can. So while a few of the bolts got a spray of penetrating oil and are sitting i will update you guys. Got two of the timing cover bolts completely loose, the ones that go through the water pump. Fuel pump is disconnected by still hanging there by the metal line. Same goes for PS pump.

To loosen the bolts, do i just keep spraying penetrating oil on them and working them back and forth until they come loose? o No:

Also, what does it mean when my distributor shaft does not move when i crank the car? The timing chain couldn't possibly be completely off, could it? o No: Thanks

 

There are a couple of reasons why the dist. won't move when you turn the motor over. All, not too good.
If the cam gear is worn so much that the dist. won't turn, then you have an oil pan full of the plastic teeth and maybe even some aluminum debris from the gear under the plastic.
If the chain broke, there could also be pieces in the pan or the chain could have damaged the timing cover.
A broken dist. gear pin or stripped gear/camshaft can cause the dist. to not turn as well.
Don't panic at this point, just get things apart and look at what happened. The most likely thing is that the cam gear is worn and won't be turned when the crank is moved.
Why did you decide to do the chain? Did the car stop running suddenly or did you just have sloppy timing?
Several years ago, I went through this on my 67 GS400 due to sloppy timing. Just couldn't get it set right as it always changed. Took the cover off and found that there was NO plastic on the cam gear. Was able to remove the chain by just lifting it off the gear. How the car ran at that point was baffling. o No:
Had to pull the motor as the oil pan was filled with the plastic from the gear. It is the only safe thing to do when the gear is worn that badly.
See what happens when you get the timing cover off and a get a good look at things.

Good Luck,
Mark

 

All....

I'm in the middle of taking of my timing cover because I snapped two of the 4 bolts in the block while changing my water pump. The only way is as you were saying, lots of oil, back and fourth, and if you have a blunt point use your air chisel and vibrate the heck out of it. This will also help free the bolts up.

Believe me when I say its not easy task. It took me 3 days!

Good Luck.

Andy

 

Alright, I confirmed it was in fact the timing chain. Removed the distributor and it spins freely, but put it back in and it wont budge. Also the cam gear appears to be fine, can't see if there is a isnt a chain down there. Looks like the front end will be removed. :ball:

 

Why?

 

I have been told several times by different people, the nylon(plastic) ended in 1969. My engine is a '73 so i shouldn't have to worry about that. 10 minutes!? Your crazy, maybe if i break the other 8 bolts off it could come out in ten minutes. :laugh:

 

Sorry to disagree, but Buick used the nylon gear long after 69. Motors I have taken apart had them up to 76 and beyond.
The 1969 confusion may come from Pontiac motors which used the nylon gear only up to then. I worked at Pontiac in 74 and they wore the nylon gears much worse than Buick.
Without a special tool that the dealer had, there was no way to get the pan off in a Pontiac without removing the motor. Dealerships were eating the warranty costs and the change was made to steel pieces so that the gears would last.
Am still willing to bet that your cam gear is worn down with no teeth and the chain is just passing over it and not moving the cam. This is causing the distributor to not turn.
Once you get the cover off, it should be evident as to what the problem is.

Mark