Looking for some help from those more experienced at hanging fenders. I've got a 72 Skylark and I am getting decent results hanging the fenders, but am hoping for some tips and tricks for better results. Drivers side fender is tight to the door at top and bottom but has too large a gap at the mid door bodyline. Is there a procedure that might help? Start here and work that way? Push here pull there? Any help appreciated. I do understand that it will be a lot of fit n adjust.
Is the hood on it and is it squared up? Moving the front of the fender further out (to left) would close the gap in the center of the fender.
The door has to be set first. The bottom front edge of the door should be right at the end of the rocker panel at the front. Then the door has to be adjusted, in/out, tilt or whatever for best fit. Then...fender. Hard to say what can be done w/o a pic. If the fender was patched, it may not have been patched perfectly...the height, contour or angle. If I understand what you are describing, I don't know exactly what you can do with that gap. A real body guy can do different things to make it fit, like weld wire on the end of the door, or grind the edge of the door at the top and bottom + weld, or add wire to the middle of the fender edge. That's last resort stuff for top end show gaps. It should be tolerable w/o that. A pic would help to better understand what could be done.
What Walt says makes sense. That would be shimming the fender out where it attaches to the core support, I've seen shims on some cars there.
I found out that this is almost an art. I messed with mine for a long time then gave up and had a friend at a body shop do it. Keep in mind that every thing in the front requires the doors to hung right but the rad support HAS to be right.The correct position is very important I have seen large shims under the support to straighten the gaps at the doors
The Riv has nearly an inch on the L side fire wall pushing the fender fwd and an inch between the core support and the frame. The right and left sides are totaly differnt in the gaps on the doors and fenders but both are straight and even. I know, Weird!
Actually, What everybody has said makes sense. Another way to accomplish your specific goal(tight on top and bottom)is to stretch the fender by shimming the top of the cowl and shimming the bottom thereby raising it and the curve of the door to change the overall gap. Make sure you are happy with the door fit before fighting the fenders.The core support is unforgiving because the fenders have to fit the doors and then the hood is aligned by putting the core support in proper center to achieve parallel lines on the sides.
Thanks for the ideas everyone. Here is what I have been doing: with the core support completely detached but fender in place loose, I align the upper fender by the windshield with the top edge of the door and install the a pillar bolt, cowl bolt and firewall bolt snug. manipulate the fender by hand, again lining up the top edge of fender and door, then tighten those three bolts. Next I have been adding 'bow" to the fender by adjusting and shimming the under rocker bolts. This is the adjustment that lets the fender clear the door as it opens etc. Finally I push the core support around as needed to install the 6 screws that connect the front of the fender to the core support. The PASSENGER side fender gets good results. consistent even door gap. pic: there is one spot where the fender bows out a little though, right where the upper flat fender rolls/contours down to the side of the fender (red hammer handle indicates the spot). This gap is accentuated when I add bow to the fender. But its close enough for now....this is a driver not a showcar. pic: The DRIVER side has been giving me fits. First off I have a hard time moving the fender far enough rearward on top (the fender is just fine at the rocker....flush contact) because there is interference with the door up top...pic: This contact occurs on the exact contour where the "bulge" occurs on the passenger side, for reference. I pulled both fenders and made a cardboard template of the door edge contour on the passenger fender since it fits relatively well. Then I put the template on the drivers fender edge and it shows that at the contour is OFF, right where the contact with the door occurs. basically it looks like the door skin needs to be rolled under another 3/32" right at the point of contact, and the contour appropriately blended. pics: These are new repro fenders I think, that came with the car, never installed till I got my hands on them. SO as I see it I have two issues to chase. 1)drivers fender looks to have skin contour issues that need fixing. when comparing the two fenders in that area, the pass fender looks"right. the drivers fender has lots of little differences from the pass side in that area, and looks a little boogered up. 2) the "bulge" I am getting at the upper door edge of the fenders, where it contours down to the side of the car. any thoughts appreciated. OH BTW I checked the doors and I like them where they are. granted the drivers door is slightly more rearward, judging by the quarterpanel gap, but I can address that later if need be. moving it forward now would worsen the fender interference on the top edge.
Love to hear the solution to this - my 71 does the same thing, actually touches at the top of the door/fender gap on the passenger side and has broken the paint. It came to me that way, so I dont beat myself up but it's maddening. Basically the fender has to come out, then down at the support, lower the hood to match, and bring the passenger fender out to match the squared hoodline. then I got a canyon sized gap at the drivers door.....
This morning I decided to clearance the bad contour at the top, door edge of the drivers fender. I decided to use a cutting wheel to trim off the rolled edge of the fenderskin in the problem area. The idea being that I can then weld the trimmed pieces back on, and they will be displaced by the cutting wheel thickness, thus increasing the door-fender gap. the cutting went well, and a test fit of the fender shows a much improved gap across the whole door edge. holding the cut pieces in place when the fender is installed shows that the clearance will be just right when everything is back together. It should be mentioned that now the door gap is acceptable, but I still have the same issue as the pass side, with the "bulge" at the top outside contour of the fender. Once the welding is done, that will be the next issue to fix.
I have not seen too many repro fenders that fit anything as far as older cars. You're really making work for yourself by trying to weld that body line up. If you are going to go that route I would tap it in and fill it lightly(I would not fix it that way,but it is an option). If you try to weld it and grind it,it is likely to get very thin. There is a series of tighten,shim,loosen,tighten,shim on any fender and you are not ever going to be happy with the fit without bodywork tools ie....shims,spoons,tram gauge,etc. The spoon is the idea of making the door or fender align once the gap is even. Without establishing a constant starting point(which usually means putting in the rear facing bolt and establishing a decent gap when tightened) and having the core support to hold the front as a constant,you are likely chasing your tail. I am not sure if any of this is helping because the car does not appear to be ready for fenders. I would agree that it is probably a good time to make sure you can make them fit.
The doors have to be installed correctly or you will never get good alignment of the panels. Door gap tolerances and where on the door to measure are illustrated in the assembly manual. Dorman sells correct shaped shims down to a 1/64" and up to 1/8" - best to have a box of each size on hand if you want optimal results. I can give you the Dorman pt #'s if you can't find them. If you have a chassis service manual you will find detailed instructions on aligning the front sheet metal. There is a Prescribed Procedure for doing this properly. Even a skilled body man will follow the procedure. It's a long road of problems trying to cheat the Procedure (been there). Get a manual and do it right the first time and you will find it to be very satisfying. The problem with the drivers side fender has been covered on this board before. You are on the right path grinding and welding to "fix" the inherent problem with that fender to door problem. I would get all the panels aligned first and then tackle the inherent drivers door to fender problem. The problem is in the fender stamping. Even the nicest show cars usually have that weird gap. Hope to help, Matt
Nice show cars do not have "weird" gaps.....lol. I think the manual is great when working with parts that fit,but that driver fender is damaged and should have been straightened to fit the door. If you fix it the hardest way,the next time will be easier.
When i done my 64 Vert it was up on jack stands so it was a easy working height.BAD IDEA,when i let it down on the wheels all the gaps changed big time.Don,t know if this apply,s to you but i just thought i would mention it anyway.Good Luck :TU:
After welding and some 36 grit, it looks pretty good up top if I do say so myself. The extra space created up top allows me to move the top back rearward a little more, evening up the door gap: The gap on this side is a little wider than the pass side, and you can see in the pic that the door sits a little rearward. But its good enough for me for now. Now I need to work on correcting the "bulging" issue. I have a theory that if the side body contour of the fender is too "flat", then the under rocker bolt needs to flex the fender a lot to get the appropriate "bow" at the bodyline so the door clears the fender edge. This puts excessive "spring" tension forces between the top and bottom of the fender, causing the upper contour to "bulge" upward. I "think" that prebending the center of the fender and support at the bodyline will reduce the amount of "bow" that the under rocker bolt needs to create, and therefore will hopefully minimize the "spring" forces and keep the "bulge" to a minimum.
Hey Ken I went through this with my suncoupe. Took a number of days of trial and error. Maddening endevor. Got a shim kit at harbor fright that helped a lot. Perfection is next to impossible even with factory fenders. Aftermarkets even worse. I have a coupe with never removed factory fender that I use as a gauge template if you want to swing by and look/measure. Also different year fenders from 70,71,72 slightly different and cause gap problems. I'll be around this weekend if you want to look at the factory set fender on my coupe. Sam. In Westfield
Do not forget to measure for 'square'. Use a tape measure crosswise from the firewall to the core support. Also, measure across, front and back, to be sure the hood opening is correct.
The fitment of the body panels on the (these) cars of the 70's was horrible, and trying to fit aftermarket fenders makes it worse:eek2: Your doing a fine job Ken, its a lot of bull work, but keep at it! If its any consolation, my 71 GS was all original when I bought it in '85, the panel alignment wasn't all that great, when I re-did it the first time, I just put it back together the way GM had it, the factory bodyside molding doesn't line up from the door to the quarter panel, but the door lines up well with the quarter
