Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by patwhac, Apr 8, 2019.
That's all they good for till you're talking twins on a real serious deal
Here is my Turbo Wagon set up for position reference
If I had a turbo 350 that didn't run at least 6.50s I would burn it to the ground
Yep, I wonder why the wheel is trying to be re-invented.....
Simplest way is usually the best way...
If a single turbo effectively doubled the 3.8’s output and size (462 cu. In.) a single turbo (sized up from good enough) will (should) double the 350’s output and effective size (700 cu. In.) easily!
The block structure I’m sure can handle it, the V6 did
A 250hp 350 with 16lbs will produce 600hp and around 700ftlbs
HP will double with 1 bar of added psi as a general guideline,..after 1bar it drops
600 hp would be sweet!!
At least he is giving this set up a valiant effort just too bad it just wasn't set up like the V6 that would be easiest, and I am still waiting for that 10 sec timeslip.
This guy might do it lets give him a chance to see if he breaks the 10's with the 350 who will be first.
I really can't see why you could just make the intake for the 350 that can use all the parts from the V6 or is it more than that.
Just transplant V6 drivetrain, the whole shebang, turbo 3.8, 2004r,
Then you'll be right there, playing with the GN boys...and have all the TA aftermarket support too.
It is a thought they would thit their pants.
Well yes and no,...you could certainly use the sp3 intake,..bung it,... elbow,..TB and be basically the same animal as the 3.8,... couple that with stock heads,..9.0 to comp,..78/75 turbo from VS and you would destroy most every Big block on this board,....but why hasn't it been done? I have no idea,....I want too,.. always have since I was a kid,...but I just have too much to do and can't stay on track for **** haha,...the potential is there,..plenty of it
Maybe some one will surprise us but I am not holding my breath. If I had the cash I would give it a shot, best I got is maybe trying a 200 shot of nos I just don't know how that will work with the new cam I bought The Lunati liked the nitrous and would it hold up
I got close. Built a motor perfect for boost. Had a nice efi setup. I put it in a car that was too far gone to be saved, and had a built 200-4r behind it that struggled even with the NA motor. Ended up parting that car out when I bought my 67. I strongly regret it, but didn't have the money or space for 2 project cars then. One of these days I'll build another one.
As for trying to keep Patrick's build thread on track, I would seriously consider modifying the manifolds. Moving the wastegate might be a way to free up some room between the valve covers and the booster/master cylinder. I know that is a bummer to have to cut them up. But it is definitely the best way to get those turbos where they need to be without sacrificing your brake setup. Either way. It can be done. Several have done it before, so don't get discouraged.
Don’t be afraid or pissed you have to start over with the manifolds, it happens all the time when you have to engineer something.
Do this get it done and make the 350 crowd proud, take it to the track and blow away the 455's
If none of you guys that did this don't make a number with this year and next the 350 parts dept will suffer.
We are already dying don't help make this happen runa damn 10 second time slip
I appreciate all of the encouragement and ideas guys! I know the 350 has a very niche following, and that I'm trying something a little off the beaten path. I do hope we can keep this mill alive!
Going forward, I'm going to try once to see if the short booster and angled brackets work, and if they don't I'll build an adapter that comes off the manifold and positions the turbos closer to the front.
I like the idea and look of twins but I do see the benefits of going single, maybe I'll explore that route if the twins don't work out, but I'm at least going to give twins a shot since I have em.
I agree Burton's manifolds make things tight, but the spark plugs are actually still accessible, probably similar to a header. A stock oil dipstick won't fit, but luckily I predicted that much and went with a long Lokar piece that clears nicely and let's the dipstick come up front to an easier to reach position. The valve cover bolt in the middle will be obstructed, but it looks like long ball end hex socket will let me get to it (I'm running hex head bolts).
I will update the thread once I do more fit up!
Rear/remote setups are actually working well and in lower boost application you can ditch the IC as well.
the interesting part is to find space to tuck it away.
If you run a Fuel cell ther is plenty of space
I assume you did some oiling mods so you can always tap into the pan to get oil to & back from the turbo, otherwise you can sun a simple dedicated Oiling system for the turbo (standalone)
YES people claim remote mounted it laggy, but what does that mean, and does that really make a difference for you + there is simple ways to make it efficient.
I ve done a few Boost builds in my life and my 68" with the BURTON kit is one of them.
Got some updates!
1. Crossmember Madness!
I finally got the 2004R crossmember sorted out! The issue was that I boxed my frame, thereby removing access to the stock crossmember mounting locations. I was considering buying a nice chromoly crossmember from ABC Performance that welds to the boxing plates (same place makes both the plates and crossmember), but I decided I didn’t like that because I’m planning on putting the TH350 back in if the 2004R blows up, or going TKX later.
I wanted a system that would let me move the crossmember back and forth to fit different transmissions the way the stock frame does. So I devised an adapter bracket system. The only reason this works is because I have the dimpled died holes in my frame boxing plates, which allow just enough room to snake in cap screws, hardened washers, and a hex socket. The spacing looks a bit strange, but I chose the holes that were farthest apart that still have the die holes near them. I made the brackets and matching crossmember end pieces extra long so that I can slide the crossmember wherever I need it. The brackets bolt to the frame and the crossmember bolts to the brackets via the welded ends. I basically chopped the stock ends off the crossmember and welded 3” x 3” angle iron on, making the brackets out of similar material. I can now make new bolt holes anytime the whole thing needs to move positions. Enough explaining, here’s pictures!
Chopped the ends off (it did NOT fit in my saw, had to use a cutoff wheel and then flap disc to try and get perfect matching lengths on both sides). Mocked it up under the car and tack welded it in position. This picture is right after removal:
Tack welded the brackets and ends together for accurate drilling of the through bolts:
Here I was attempting to shoot a laser line from the crankshaft centerline to the middle of the pinion bolt. I then installed the driveshaft to check that I wasn’t offsetting the transmission too much to one side. My laser line is hard to see in the picture, but it looks pretty straight! This was done before tack welding using clamps to position everything.
Long TIG welds!
Mocked it up again. I must have installed and removed this damn thing 20 times by now! It's not getting any lighter with the 3" angle on the ends . . .
Installed finally! Probably took me 2-3 weekend days of work to do just the crossmember.
Driveshaft is 3/4” from the yoke to the output seal at ride height, which I think is perfect, no need to shorten it! (Someone correct me if I’m wrong):
2. Turbo Mock Up Continues!
I installed the angled booster brackets and single 7” diaphragm booster, and it clears the turbo! It even clears the downpipe that came with my kit, though I did have to chop the pipe near the frame to install it. It was either that or unbolt my steering shaft, but I figured I’ll just install another 3 bolt flange where I chopped it to make life easier. Don’t see how I could have gotten that thing in otherwise, even with the steering shaft out it would have been a PITA.
The problem is, it looks like it’ll be verrrry tight to the hood. My rough measurements say that I’ll have about 1/4” between the hood and master cylinder, hopefully that’s ok. Luckily the master seems to sit right in one of the high “pockets” of the hood. I’ll probably put my spare hood on and use modeling clay to double check. If it doesn’t clear, I’ll proceed with making an extension pipe to relocate the turbo and go back to the dual 8” booster. I'm going to either run one of Craig's hoods (If I ever get one) or chop a hole in this one for the carb hat. I was thinking that if I decide to use this brake setup and need to put a little hole in the hood for it to clear, maybe I'll just cover it up with a lil hood tach
I’m a little worried about how close the downpipe is to the brakes in general, especially my nice custom lines! I’m planning on turbo blankets, header wrap on the downpipes, and fabricating a sheet metal heat shield around the lines and master. I suppose this can be an issue on any turbo car!