I agree....... There are alot of blocks available right now that the stock Buick parts won't bolt up to, makes no sense to me to build another......o No:
Block should have splayed caps using the stock type pan. Make the caps threaded on the splayed portion and run the bolts to the outside of the block. A halo option would be a good for higher HP setup as well as optional small journal main caps w/ block spacers. Leave meat for a larger cam journal(roller bearings would be nice) as well as plenty of meat on the deck for extra milling. Extra head bolt boss in the lifter valley that is reverse counterbored so it can be bolted from the bottom for those that need it. Oversized oil fittings in the block for external oiling hookups. Tapped lifter oil passages for use of oil restrictors. My opinion....
What do the "stock block" guys think of adding bosses to the front of the block for a motor plate, or the back of the block having a BOP and chevy bolt pattern? The stock pan fits a block with a girdle, can't the block rails be that much deeper for added strength, and is that enough for coss bolted mains? As for reduced diameter mains, the Bulldog block can be machined either way, so I would think this one can be made the same way. Things that won't matter either way are extra head bolt holes, lifter valley ribs/bracing, deck thickness, liners (or not), and oiling mods. Even if ALL the stock parts will bolt on, there could still be improvements that won't look "factory". I don't want so much to change that it looks like a chevy :error: , but I don't want to give up strength just for looks, or just to retain a stock pan (which are getting just as hard to find as the blocks so you'd have to buy one, anyway!). The Buick camp has a lot of catching up to do compared to the brand x guys, who can pick up the phone and order an engine that makes more than any Buick makes!
Even with a girdle the stock Buick block will fail. With beefed up main and lifter galley webbing, oil mods, siamesed bores, overall wall thickness, etc - the new block certainly wouldn't be a wimp configured for a stock pan. Either aluminum or iron would be way stronger than production blocks with all the bandaids. An iron block in that configuration should cost less than aluminum and wouldn't be bad either. The price would be less for iron ,,,,,,,, $2500 - $3500 ? If a guy could swap over all the stuff from his 455 would open for more sales. All the stuff he can reuse will make it more likely he can step up to the aluminum block or an iron one if it came available. SFI bellhousing stuff is already out there too. No need to change that.
Design the block around the ultimate desired hp...and only make major changes that affect reliability at that power level. How much power do we want/need? That is the question for the poll! My2cents... How many Buick racers are there with a chassis that can be legally raced into the 8's? I only know of a handful. The bulk of your initial market it would seam is the 9-10 second crowd. This is where most Buick guy's are. Will these folks purchase a block? ...5K is a bunch of money, but no one can sanely argue it's cheaper to band-aid a production block. They just don't last. Back to the question: How many people foresee needing more than 1000-HP in the next 5 to 10 yrs? I'm looking forward to building a Buick that is both strong and reliable.:TU:
I'm with Alan, mid-plate bosses and lifter bore bracing across the lifter bore. Good point on the cross-bolt considering current girdle/frame clearance for A & G-body guys....The extra room in the pan helps keep the oil away from the crank. If the block comes machine with both trans bolt patterns it would be nice from a Mid-plate standpoint and trans flexability.
I think the maximum market would be the way to go. As close to stock looking as posible with a few things fixed. * Priority oiling * large bore(4.50") standard sleeveso No: * splayed caps with option for small journals * Provision for larger cam, maybe chevy cam bearings(may limit stroke?). * Deminsionally stable. I kind of like the mid plate mounts and flexible trans pattern. Other than these few things the block could still be very much Buick! Market - Race, ProStreet/Race, Boosted street/race and the guys with enough money to have a polished block to show off!:Brow:
Cost is an issue but we will only get one block so it better work for everyone. If you are going to keep people from jumping the Buick Band wagon, then it better be able to hold up to at least 2000HP.
More hp is ALWAYS good...Hopefully that doesn't require it to look like a Rodeck or DRE. Can't just put a set of Buick scripted valve covers on it and call it a Buick.
I agree with Rick, make it stand some HP. I will not likely build a 2000hp engine but I would like to build a 800 to 900 hp engine I can really lean on and not be scared every pass in the lights the thing is going to kick the crank out. I just don't see the reasoning to need over 500hp on the street and a stock block will take that. I see these people running around all the time that want to say they got 600+ horsepower and they can't run within 2 seconds of what my 500hp car will run. Instead of wanting the aluminum block to be like stock so they can bolt everything on it and then claim 1000hp, just spray your stock block aluminum and claim what you want. Let the race people get something they can use. JIm
Just so you guys understand when I reffered to the two customers I have waiting for the blocks that want to use stock cranks, the engines will still be 650-750 hp range with the option to step it up later and both use stock Xmembers. The cost of setting up a stock block girdles etc is half way to the new block. I'm sure that were not the only one's thinking that far a head are we? The dropped pan rails has been a given since day one, were just waiting to see how dropped they will be. I'm not thinking about the use of stock pans here just all the guy's that have alot of money tied up in there existing pans. Chris
Were do I go with this, I want a new block, like many others, and could use one right now...Like many others, but here's somehing I'm wondering about, straight to Mike @TA. I called you guys last week and talked to one of the ladies and asked if she had an update regarding when the aluminum block project would be done, she put me on hold and came back and told me "the block should be ready by the summer, or before.." So the question that has been thrown out to "the board" about what we would like to see, or want, would seem too late, doesn't it? With only 6 months or so until the summer of 2008, I'd hope these details would have been addressed already, and incorporated into the "end product". Don't get me wrong, this is not "bashing" or anything negative, just think these items that have been mentioned, IF incorporated would set the project back even farther.......Ya know what I mean?? I totally appreciate everyones ideas, you guys have alot of knowledge and know what would be best for us, we all want to "step up" and make some reliable horsepower, and TA has always looking out for our best interests, and I want a block... Gary G.
How strange would it be to put Castiron heads on the new block ? Or Is that not possible...Im sure its a dumb question but im curious.
Designing it around max horsepower seems to make sense to me. A girdled standard block will hold 700 horsepower or so. With the up and coming popularity of supercharging and turbocharging, the new block needs to withstand substantially more. Even a really good flowing set of heads would raise the bar for a N/A motor. We also need to be competitive horsepower wise with some of the brand x engines to help keep the Buick racers who want to go faster faithful to Buick. Just my 2 cents.
or the back of the block having a BOP and chevy bolt pattern? this should go without saying. you guys want maximum parts compatability? that's a big one right there. casting a new block with BOP pattern only ( a pattern that's been dead for nearly 20 years now ) is downright stupid. if memory serves, that's the way Bulldog is supposed to have done it. ou: what i'm curious about is if they're going to cast it with the mains a narrow enough diameter to fit a Nailhead crank. there's a supply of forged cranks out there just waiting to be tapped.
This same thing was kicked around when Bradshaw was doing the Bulldog. A friend of mine who is a knowledgeable engine builder and Buick person, tried to talk to Bradshaw about some of these same issues but didn't get too far. Not sure if it really matters, the world is not overrun with Bulldog blocks. Fixing the lifter area and increasing the cam diameter is a must. Of course the oiling and stiffening of the mains and deck. I have been told that it would not take too much to make a Big Block Chrysler crank work. That would really open up a supply of affordable, high strength cranks. I would like to see the ability to build a super strong and light rotating assembly and a block that would keep it in place. Then we could start talking about some serious heads and intakes. Jim N.
I like all the ideas that you Guys came up with. I will take a Block now where is it??? I get tired of waiting somethings take to much time. So is this true that the Block will be out in 6 months??? It would be nice. You guys have thrown in all the good input. I would like a Block of some type that is aftermarket and looks like a Buick block that is Strong These Stock Blocks can not handle alot of RPMS very many times. I am not up for waiting for Block for a nother Year or Two I have been waiting for a Block sents Dec,13,2004 I have had it with waiting.
