This has definitely been the year of getting conned for me and my friends. I don't even want to say how much, but it hasn't been a cheap year for a guy who normally doesn't have 2 extra nickles to rub together. If anyone knows the route to take in going after thieving transport drivers I sure would appreciate the advice. Basically the transport driver said there were no brakes and the Wildcats bumpers were loose and he had to buy tools (yeh, why would a long range driver not have basic tools?) and hire help to bleed the brakes "while it was on the truck" (important point). The seller of my WildCat, Bob Westbury, in Concord Ca. watched the transporter drive it onto the transport, and owns a brake and front-end shop.He personally drove it to the ramps with brakes, and after it was loaded by the driver he went home. About 20 minutes later he gets a REAL nasty call from the transporter which he couldn't even believe.Then the driver called me in North Carolina telling me all this junk and how I needed to collect from the seller, which was REAL convienant since the car was already loaded.Wish I had thought to ask why he didn't call FIRST but he wasn't being real "sweet" to me either. I didn't even want to talk to the seller after all this (because I believed the transport driver) but agreed to speak to him anyhow (after car had been delivered) and we discovered the real problem. Obviously the driver sucked the fluid out of the master cylinder because it is wet but completely empty.He said he and his paid help bleed them and they were then good, and the bumpers were all tightened. When he got here bumpers were hanging very loose (said it was because he didn't have lock washers) and the brakes were completely non working.Later I found there was no fluid in the master cylinder, and the bleeder screws still have caked on dry road mud on them. Then he overcharged me on the original bill by $50 in addition to the Non-running vehicle charge. I sent an e-mail to the company that gave this guy the transport job.Don't know how much help that will be because they ignored numerous requests for a hardcopy of the agreed on price, and still owe me $50 dollars there too. This is my first time having a car transported and I'd appreciate any advice on how to proceed from here.I got a good deal on the car but these overcharges and non running vehicle charge cost me over $200 and that is allot of money to a father of 3.I even tipped the driver an extra $20 for what he "went through"ou: I can handle allot but someone lying and stealing from me breaks the camels back. Thanks in advance for ANY help.
John- I have one question- Is this transport driver authorized by anyone to do mechanical repairs on vehicles he transports without the blessing of the owner and/or DOT? Is it legal for him to even touch a wrench to a car? He's a driver, not a mechanic. Maybe this is a place to starto No: good luck edit~ I am correct in assuming he attached the hold downs to the BUMPER??
Are you a AAA member? If so, is the transport company a AA member too? If so, go through AAA and report this. They'll work to get your $$$ back. Very important thing to know! How did you pay? If check, stop payment on it. If credit card, call the card company and explain it to them. They will investigate. Good luck. And nice 'cat.
Hi Chris and Jeff, Well, I thought I was going to work but the doctors office insisted I come in and get this big knot on my leg examined (got pinned between some equipment a few weeks ago and never had it looked at) so here I am back at the computer till then. Anyhow I appreciate the suggestions on the DOT laws and the Triple A help. The company who secured this particular transporter called me back first thing this morning after my e-mail explaining what had happened on their overcharge and apologized profusely for the transporter mess. They were like a broker so I wasn't really upset with them except there own personal overcharge and not returning my calls (they had some good excuses though). They are refunding the money they overcharged me right away and gave me all the information on the transport company.Gave me there address, all phone numbers, and the dispatchers name. They said they will definitely be calling and requested I also call this evening in case this driver has been pulling this stuff on other folks. As much of a hot head as that driver was and the fact he still has my number also I imagine I'll be getting a heated call from him which I'm not looking forward to, but the guy lied without a shadow of a doubt and if he wants to try and make something of it I guess he can try. Guess I'm learning some new lessons still.I guess I should have told the transport driver to unload the car looking back on it, but he said it was on top and had to be fixed before it could even come back off or it would be taken to a police yard till his bill to that point was paid.Talk about a no win situation for me all the way across the US. The broker today asked me if the car was on top as specified also. Just like the seller said, and I noticed when delivered, it was covered with junk from all the cars above, and sitting right on the bottom.I even had the picture to prove it. At least that is one lie I could prove.Guy didn't even give me a vehicle report,check the vin on the car at pickup or anything. We'll see what happens. I want to start enjoying my car and not mess with all this, she's a factory 4 speed car and I hate the first experiences with it to be this. Ok, thanks again for the suggestions
John, It's sad that all this crap happened. On the bright side, you now have a 64 WILDCAT! So when do we get to see pictures of the inside and motor?:Brow:
John, Is that picture you or the %#*! transport driver? Sorry to hear about your troubles, but that car is worth it. Between that and me trying to get that parts car to you, I think I should start a transport company!!!!!!!!!!
Joe, Here's the link for more pics.The interior will take awhile to make presentable though. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29134&highlight=$2500+wildcat Dan, No the guy in the photo is the "Phat Cat" himself (me ) The transport driver somehow looked rougher than me ! Don't get me wrong I am thrilled to get this car (wish I could find some production numbers Heard 30 for 1963) The money the guy cost me hurts but worse than that having someone involved in our hobby that lies and cheats people out of their hard earned money "isn't getting it" here. He's gonna definitely "earn" that money before I am done with him:grin: . Hopefully this will help someone else down the line he would normally rip off. I've gotten some great suggestions here as well as some very detailed info by PM and I really appreciate the helpfulness. P.S. Dan don't sweat the 60 if it's meant to work out it will.
I'll share that with you just as soon as I have an oppurtunity to talk to the owner and see how he handles this. I was told the transporters have been doing a good job for the brokers who gave them my job,so it very well could just be the driver, so I hate to release the company name till I give them a chance to explain. If they blow it all off with the evidence I have from the seller, myself, and all the conflicting things the driver said and did, I definitely will be releasing the name. Like you said, I still have the car:TU:
I'm a little confused. What is it you suspect the driver of doing? Stealing your brake fluid and loosening your bumpers? If that's the case, I have just one question....Is he on medication?o No:
John - I think Chris is on to something here!! Not sure how it works in all the states, but here in NY, I believe an unlicensed 'mechanic' that charges you money for work he did, can get fined a minimum of $1000 for running an unregistered repair facility. Pretty good chance you could have this guy 'over a barrel'!! You might also check with the local DMV (yeah...I know how much FUN that is!!).
Hi Doug, What was going on here is the guy I bought the car from who incidently owns a brake and front end shop drove the Wildcat to the ramps with good brakes, watched the driver (transport) drive the Cat on with no problems, and then left shortly afterwards because the driver had lots of things to do with other cars before he left.Brakes were good at this point. 20 minutes later he gets a blistering call from the driver about no brakes,bumpers loose etc. Then he calls me and tells me the same thing and says through his own heroics he was able to get the car on the top deck but he is going to have to charge me an extra $200's for a "non running vehicle fee". Of course the car is already loaded at this point and he said someone had to pay for his work and trip up till then and if I didn't want to do that it would need to go to a police impound area till resolved,but then quickly said the seller would have to reimburse me, and not to worry about it, as he would pay someone to help him fix the brakes as well as the bumpers. I waited 2 days and called the transport driver hoping he had cooled down.He talked a whole bunch more trash about the seller but said he and someone he paid got the brakes working "actually real good,with a good pedal,and tightened the bumpers back"No problem, but "he doesn't work for free". Three days later here comes the Wildcat loaded on the bottom just as the seller said it was, and not as the drivers directions told him (top load only). The cars master cylinder was completely empty,the bleeding screws had not been touched,there was no brake fluid anywhere visable under the car on the frame, or backing plates,firewall,brakes lines, or anywhere.Bumpers were loose "again" also. So yes I guess you could say he took the brake fluid and this allowed him to make a false charge to his benefit of $200. He probably took something and sucked it all out before he delivered it because the sides on the master cylinder where still wet all the way up the walls, and dripping off the cap yet it was empty. He could probably easily make an extra grand a month doing this to folks and that's why I am so hot about it.
I see now. Around here, we deal with people like that a little harshly. I almost tore down a hole in the wall U-Haul place that tried to scam me for 8 gallons of gas (@ $3.00 a gallon) in a rented truck that I had driven 12 miles. I WISH I had video of my ex-girlfriend's brother-in-law holding me back as I was trying to get at the manager and screaming "who do you think you're dealing with?" I threw a five dollar bill at him to cover the gas I DID use and told him if he wanted me to pay the rest he'd have to give me the gas in a gas can so I could burn the place down. He begged my friends to get me out of there. I wonder how many people forked over the cash in that same scam because they didn't want to "make a scene". Obviously your situation was a little different because you wanted your car. Hopefully the next guy he does it to has a history of violence! Good Luck with the car.
You see what I'm talking about now. This guy is ultra slick at "BS- ing" also, I mean I thought he would never shut up, but I guess he was wearing me down so I didn't want to go over the car that good, and just get away from him. I can tell ya one thing the guy isn't "right" either he would be there one minute just raising hell,cussing his head off in my neighborhood (in front of other neighbors houses because my street was too small, nice touch there also) about his drunk @%#^%^ son in law, the &$^@ guy I bought the car from,and anything else he could think of, then he would be real calm and joking about old street racing stories. I called up and reported the whole situation to Linda (his dispatcher at Grizzly Auto sales and Transport (may as well release the name as they are obviously afraid of the guy). Located in Reno Nevada. I told them under no circumstances did I want to speak with the driver again but she could call back after she got his side of the story, and of course the driver calls back. He said he didn't need this !$#%$^%# %@% on his record and he didn't ^%# with my $%@ brakes. The guy is obviously unstable and I have to now make the decision if I want to pursue this.My gut feeling is he will show up unexpectedly and attempt to do something, if I officially report him. I personally don't back down from any fight,especially one for "the right" but I do have concerns he would be the type to go blind with anger and come on our property (has my home address of course) and I have a wife and 3 children here and sometimes I'm out of town. So is it worth risking my families safety over my hobby? I took pictures of the bleeder valves last night covered with undercoating and dried old dirt about 1" thick all around on the fronts,checked all the brake lines for leaks,the metering blocks, wheel cylinders,proportioning block,the master cylinder at the firewall and interior, and had my friend of 25 years plus being a certified mechanic, even come over late last night to look it over so I didn't feel like I was missing something since the transport driver raised so much hell that he and "the kid" DID do the brakes. Results? not one bleeder valve had been uncovered or cracked,not one bad brake line or connection was bad, and after Jack and I were finally able to crack open the line at the master cylinder he was able to bleed it enough there to get the brakes back to where the seller said they had been all along. So if the driver said the brakes where working after he worked on them (which he DID also tell his dispatcher he did) but inspection shows none of the brakesystems valves had been opened (Making his story impossible) then that means they worked all along just as the seller stated in his ebay ad and on the phone. The driver obviously called and said they were bad (when they weren't) used them till he got near my house then pulled off the exit ramp (where a friend of mine saw him doing something to the car) and took a turkey baseter or something of the sort and sucked all he could out of the master cylinder,got the system full of air, and "presto" no brakes again. That would also explain the heavy concentration of brake fluid (I thought came from cars dripping on it from above on the carrier, initially) that was all over the top of the drivers fender and all down the side where I guess he was dripping it as he removed it from the mastercylinder. Is the transport company going to listen to all this? Probably not,does anyone care? probably not.Should I risk having this guy come after me next transport close by and potentially endangering my family?Probably not. Do I want to nail this S.O.B. (sucker of brakes)? You had better believe it! Here's a picture of one of the bleeder valves on the front he would have opened.You may need an x-ray machine to see it as it is totally encased on both sides by this muck. Now what to do................
Just to shed a little inside light on this one. I am a freight broker. I do not deal with cars but I have a really good friend that is a car transporter. The cars on the trailer get shuffled around on the trailer depending on what order they load and unload. This is why they need to be in "running" condition. they also have to shuffle the cars to meet length requirements which can be different in different states. Sounds to me like this driver was pretty much clueless. The brake issue sounds very odd. Most transporters will never go so far as to bleed the brakes. Liability and insurance issues say DO NOT attempt any repairs etc. Tell me this guy did not secure your car by the bumpers?! That is also a huge no-no. ALL cars should be secured by the axels ONLY. You never secure a car by the bumper. If the driver admits to "working" on the brakes and also to securing the car by the bumpers then that should be all you need to get back some compensation. NOTHING should ever be worked on by the driver period. HELLO MR LIABILITY!! My friend runs Denver to the east coast and back. If anyone ever wants a reliable, honest, transporter look me up. He is also a muscle car fan as well. He hauled an all original 65 SS Malibu for Tom Cruise one time so you can trust the guy. Sorry to hear about the brain damage on your car. Glad to see it has a happy home in the end though.
I agree, too bad for the company. THEY hired HIM! Why should YOU pay the price. John, Unless I missed it, have you mentioned what form of payment you used?? I'm telling you, if you used a credit card, YOU my friend are in the drivers seat. I just got out of a $1,300 bill from U-Haul from my move simply by contacting CitiCorp (The MasterCard Sponsor) when I received the bill. I had such a horrible experience with crap equipment and HORRIBLE, OBNOXIOUS customer service. I eloquently stated in a letter to Citicorp why I feel I owe them nothing for this move and U-Haul rebutted with a lame credit offer to which I rebutted by more or less saying my intelligence has been insulted one too many times and that I refused their offer. Next thing I know, I stop seeing it on my bill. A couple months later I get an official letter from Citicorp saying the "matter has been resolved" and that I am not responsible for the payment. As I said, with credit card payments, you hold the ball. This is not the first time I have used the credit card to my advantage either. The credit card company could give a rats ass about the vendor. In fact, they don't want vendors like that using their service anyway. Good luck to you whatever happens. :Smarty: BTW, that is one really rare CAT you have there! :jd:
Pat, No, the guy did have it secured by the axles. The mention of the bumpers was because he said he would get in trouble if he got pulled over, and the loose bumpers where noticed, so I would need to pay him for tightening the bumpers all back also. They were loose and flopping when he got here.The washers were not even scored by the nuts, showing they had never been tightened against one another with tools as the driver claimed. His explanation was it was because he didn't have any lock washers and they "must have come loose again". Yeh.....right. Of course that makes me want to ask if it was a problem earlier why wasn't it a problem when they came loose in transit? The seller did tell me they "were loose but wouldn't fall off". Just another lie by the driver.
Hey Ken, Now THAT's the kind of story I like to hear.Chalk one up for the good guys:TU: Unfortunately (yep, here we go) the broker was to be paid via credit card their fee of $150 and the balance was to be paid via certified check to the transporter.A COD type thing. Well, the day after he had picked up the car and I called to personally apologize for what he had been through and he said it wasn't my fault, go after the seller after he delivers it, and shows me the write up (which he never produced, but instead gave me a blank form to fill out and he'd stand behind whatever I found that was misrepresented). Oh, and "while he had me on the phone" his company preferred cash instead of certified funds, because of all the "fake stuff" going around. No paper work,no certifed check to prove he had even been paid, and definitely no way to prove the extra fee he charged me.Plus I tipped him a $20 for "what he had been through". Very smoooooooth operator. Reading this now I am thinking "HOW could I have gotten taken in like that?" but when I picture him standing in my neighbors front yard throwing around every cuss word know to mortal man and remembering him saying days earlier that if the bill is not satisfied the car would go to police impound (originally said that from pick up point AFTER it was already loaded). I just wanted my car and him gone ya know? Maybe I just need to think along those lines.The guy I bought the car from has even offered to help with the additional charges but I hate to have him doing that when it wasn't his fault. Anyhow I better get off here, got to get another Doctors appointment, I definitely shouldn't have been pulling those wheels and all last night I took 2 of my painkillers and jumped on the project though as I could not stand not knowing the truth. Ok, I have the car, I know I am not losing my mind over the stuff I KNEW could not be true now, and I'm bleeding, and will probably be getting some more surgery (would have happened anyway). Still really happy about the Wildcat itself though, my friend who came over last night (Jack) who is another Buick nut really thought the car was cool and he dosen't say too much normally. He had lots of good suggestions to make the car more dependable too.Nice guy Ok, now where are those pain killers Yee ouch! Thanks again for all of your comments here.Even though I'm probably looking like a big dork right now, maybe someone else will be able to avoid some of these traps in the future. If so that is cool by me. :TU:
John- Let me tell you a little story that really happened to me, and see if you can find any simmilarities to your situation... A few years ago, I bought a new Nissan. After XXX number of miles, I took it back to the dealer for scheduled maintenance. I was told the bill would be $270 for the scheduled maintenance, and the service manager asked me what they should do if they find any other problems. I authorized them to do up to an additional $100 for any needed repairs, and to call me if it exceeded that ammount. Later that evening when I returned for the car, I was presented with a bill for $340. OK, I'm cool with that, so I paid the bill and drove home. A couple days later, [when I had a little free time] I actually looked at the bill/invoice. The extra $70 in charges were as follows: $20- replace air filter $35- adjust clutch $15- rack fee Now, here's the funny part... Exactly one month previous to this, the clutch had gone out while I was on the road, so I took [towed] it to an out of town Nissan dealer. They told me the hydraulic clutch cylinder had failed. It was replaced under warranty, and I thought nothing of it. "Now, wait a minuite..." I thought. First of all, why would a brand new clutch need to be "adjusted"...... And exactly how do you adjust a hydraulic clutch any-way????? So I drove back up to the dealership, and confronted the service manager. At first, I played stupid to see what kind of BS line he would try and feed to me. He explained that my clutch cable is designed to be adjusted,,, as the cluthc wears--- bla bla bla OK, says I,,, so what's this $15 rack fee? when we adjust the clutch, we need to lift the car up in the air on a lift rack, and that's a $15 charge So at this point, I know I'm being conned, and I produce the month old invoice from when the clutch cylinder was replaced, and I ask him exactly how do you "adjust" a hydraulic system? Now the service manager totally changes his attitude to a defensive one, wont answer any of my questions, and asks me to wait in the waiting-room while he asks the mechanic who worked on my car. He returns a few minutes later and explains that they "added fluid" to the clutch cylinder, and lifted my car up on the rack to check for leaks since the cylinder was low, and that's where the $50 in charges came from. I'm finding all of this totally ludicris because the entire clutch hydraulic system is in plain sight... Cylinder is on the firewall, hydro line is in plain sight, as is the slave cylinder where it enters the FWD tranny. So I said "basically you charged me $50 to top off the fluid?" and he says "yes"..... Now I'm getting no satisfaction from the dealership, so I go home and call Nissan directly, and ask to speak to a service rep about a mechanical issue. On the phone, I explained the situation.. The factory rep said that was rediculous, and that I should not have been charged in the first place, because topping off the fluid was included as part of the scheduled maintenance!!!:af: Then he asks me for the name of the dealership. When I tell him, he says "Oooooh, that dealer"... And I asked "what do you mean?" He explained that they had several similar complaints from them, and he had dealt with one from them just a few hours earlier that day. Nissan Motor Corp. was good enough to re-pay me the $50 [eventually] because the dealer stood behind their bogus story, but I was still pi$$ed off, so I went back up to the dealer, and said "If there was a problem with the new clutch cylinder, then it must be defective... So I want the whole entire clutch hydraulic system replaced....... Under warranty!" And they did replace it....... But it took them 2 weeks to do ituzzled: which is strange because the out of town dealer only took about two hours... In other words, they "drug their feet" just to get even with me. A few months later, the Nissan dealer in question went out of business.... Gee, I wonder what happened?????:Brow: I was conned, as were you. I had documentation to back up my side of the story, as do you! I demanded satisfaction, as should you! Between my story, and what's been posted above, I'd say you have PLEANTY of ammunition to go after this guy.... Especially if you play the "liability" card as stated above. The bottom line is that this guy is a thief:blast: and he has been caught in a lie! He has no-one to blame but himself, so I cant imagine he would come after you personally for his own personal problems.
