Max HP on a Buick 455 Block

Anybody know what the max horsepower you can put to a stock Buick 455 block? Anybody broke one??? I am going to buy the girdled oil pan from Poston, but I was told 700-750 is the max. The bad thing is that I am estimating 650 HP on motor. I just got a stage 6 NX plate put in my intake and I was wanting to spray 200 shot on it. My friend has a CNC water jet and I think I am going to make a 2 peice girlde to add on with the oil pan. (wil post a picture if I do get it done) Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Blair

 

Well I am by no means an expert but Michael Garrison (Racebuicks on the board) is pushing 800 plus. I'm also not sure how "stock" his block is.

 

Blair

Back in the '80's I was using stock rods, ARP bolts, no girdle and had a NOS Stage 3 Cheater plate system. Forget the first two stages I went to the 3rd stage. And back then we just sprayed held on and if she popped we let off the juice. Had to say the engine held up for a long time, though I blew about 4 trannys. Used to cruise next to the big block Chevy boyz about 40 mph and we both got on it. I would manually shift it from drive to low 1 and spray it! Now that's what I called getting your cheeks sucked into your face! But unfortunately the TH400 couldn't take it. Anyway finally retired the engine as it ran 10.70's on the squeeze in a 3600 pound street legal GS. My next engine didn't fair as well...BABOOM! So in went the girdle out went the nitrous and I'm happy to say I belong to "nitrous anonyomous" now. Though I have to say I had a blast on the street with it. So now I only run on pure perverted Buick Muscle and I LOVE IT!

As for a girdle, I am never one to pick and choose on this site, but I would highly recommend the TA girdle. Just in comparision it's stronger. As for the most HP I would venture to guess in the 1100-1300 range (please I'm questimating here guys) Scotty of PeeGee Performance ran in the mid high 7's in a late model Pro Stock Regal car with a 455 block and reached the max. With all the best work, the block still was stressing and would only last a few runs.

Best of Luck and please do keep us posted!
Rick Martinez

 

Well I have got some good news and some bad news. The bad news is I called Poston about their oil pans and they will not have a girdled pan available until late Febuary. (Man I cannot wait that long). I have been waiting on my TA heads since July and they still are not ready yet. Anyway, I am going to go ahead get the block girdle from TA and use my stock oil pan for now. TA said the block with the girdle can hold 1100 HP, so this should be no problem with my combo. I also just got another Stage 6 plate system so I will be running two plates, one in the intake, and a second on top of that. (Max 150HP in each stage). Everything else is pretty much bullet proof on the engine so I think it will be fine. Since I have another month for the cylinder heads to come, I am going to lighten the car up even more, (I hope to get it to 3250 with me in it) to kill time for now. Anyway will have a picture of the motor when I get is completed, should be end of November.

Blair Phillis

 

I'm not one of the gurus with the on-the-edge stuff, but you might make sure again before you end up disapointed.

These things need more girdles than my Aunt Bertha. There's the main girdle, the halo for the main girdle, and the lifter valley girdle. I was of the understanding from Rick's description that 1100 is the limit with the best of everything period. That was what Scotty G got from his and it still wouldn't go more than a few passes.

Make sure you have the halo that goes on top of the main girdle.

 

Yah that sounds good, but I am only looking at 850 to 900 HP at the max. (Dave at TA said it will do 1100 with the girdle but I am not intending on pushing the envelope) I have designed a 2 peice girdle off autocad that will be added on along with the block girdle so I don't see any problem. (I will be transfering it to OMax next week, so it can be cut on the waterjet ASAP) I also have put cement in the bottom part of the block. I would get the Halo but I already could have built 2 chevy's for the money I have in this thing and frankly, I am getting tired of having to buy more special parts, to keep this thing from coming apart. One question, where do you get a lifter valley girdle???

Thanks,
Blair

 

where do you get a lifter valley girdle???

T/A Performance.:grin:

 

Sure you could build two Chevy's for the same money........but then you'd just have two boring, been there done that Chevy motors. Where's the fun in that?? :grin:
If your looking for all out strenght you should wait for the new iron block or the TA aluminum block. If what I've been hearing about these blocks has any truth, us Buick guys are gonna start seeing some awfully quick Big Block cars next season. :TU: :TU: :TU:

 

Yah, I have heard about those new Buick blocks, do you know how much they are going to cost ???

 

New Iron Block

I think the pre-production price for the iron block from PAE is $3600.00

 

I don't have a clue myself since an after market block is well beyond my current needs or financial means.
I'd get in touch with Jim Burek (buick535) at PAE as I think he has alot to do with the iron block developement.
TA is working on the aluminum block. I'd guess a call to both would probably get you a ball park figure on price and when they'll be available.

 

New Iron Block

Yah, I figured that they were around $3500.00, not to mention you would probably have to wait for about 6 months. I have been waiting for my heads from TA since July, and I am getting tired of waiting for items. (Any other of you guys run into this)This is only a street car so an aftermarket block would be an overkill and an expensive add on. When I started this project I was only going to rebuild the 350 that was in the car, well that idea got thrown out the window and the more and more people bashed the car, the more I wanted to make it more powerful, but I have to put a stop to this before it gets out of hand. I have already doubled my orginal budget and well, its my dads car and he is wondering when the pouring of the money will stop. So I hope this block girdle will be the last think I have to buy for this engine.

Blair

:stmad: :stmad: :stmad:

 

Blair,

First off with your projected HP range I would give Doug Hecker a PM as he is in that range in a 3000 or less pound car w/driver and is on the verge of running solid 8's in his '65 GS. He is still playing with the convertor combo. Though he already is running 150+ mph.

As with the lifter girdle...I just recently went for it and my older motor was making in the low 700 range. Good insurance. In fact Doug can tell you his story how at Norwalk a few years back he broke a lifter bore and since then has the lifter bore girdle. As with the Halo, in my opinion the jury is still out, though I have no plans on making 800 + ponies. My new engine should be in the 750+ range.

I know it can be frustrated on waiting for parts. But one good spin off is it buys you time for more money to to shovel away. In my case I could have had my engine back in and running by Buick Performance Weekend this past Labor Day, but I elected for some better and newer parts and decided to increase performance. The down side is waiting but with fall approaching I thought better to scratch the season now to do things right for the spring, hence I am looking for solid 9.20-9.30's instead of some of my old 9.80's or maybe 9.70's. After seeing Norwalks Qualifying bump well into the high 9's I made up my mind fast. So what ever way you choose think it out for the long hall. Sometimes waiting is better.

One last point here about filling your block. Make sure you tall fill the block, do not just short fill it. I short filled an engine some years back and wouldn't you know it #3 cylinder wall broke directly above where the filler ended. Since then all of mine are tall filled. Short filled will help the bottom end, but will do squat for cylinder wall help.

Rick Martinez

 

Yah, tall fill sounds good but where do you run water ??? The water ports are down low on a 455, anything above that and I cannot run water. This is a street can and I have to run a radiator. Like I said it only will hit the track 3 times a year. I hope to get the car down to 3250 with me in it (I only weight 132 lbs so that helps) From my calculations I have to make 840 HP at the crank to get a 9.90 and that is my goal. Also the car is a 72 Skylark covertible and I do have a 6 point moly cage in it.

On the flip side:
One more thing is I am trying not to go over my budget becuase I have a 82 S10 that will be my primary track vehicle, so I am trying to keep money for it also. weight of it is 2000 lbs with me in it, estimated times are 7.30's in quarter. I hope to have my Buick completed by this Spring then the S10 by August 2004.

Blair

:stmad: :stmad: :stmad:

 

I am almost ready to go cheby myself. I have been waiting on stg 1 heads. I have the TA front cover,210HLcam,Crower bushed rods,shperical pistons.Anything I have means nothing without those heads. I will wait a few more months and I will have had enough and have it all for sale,rollerrockers and my 68stg1 heads and all.I can order a 600horse cheb and have it at my front door next week.

 

Blair,

Food for thought here. My '70 GS weighed 3200 pounds with me in it. had a 455 .038 over (NOT STROKED,) Stage 1 steel heads (fully modified to the max, flowed 300 cfm at .600 lift on intake) roller cam, single dominator, TH400 w/a 4,800 stall, 4.30's gears on 14x32 tires. The car ran a best of a 9.82 at 135 with a 1.32 sixty foot. We never had it dynoed but HP was in the 690-720 range at the crank. My new engine out this spring will be dynoed as we estimate it will be in the 750 range (not 800) and the car weight will get down to 3000 and change, we estimate 9.20-30's on a good day. Your 840 estimate on a 3250 car would be considerably faster. For you to run 9.90's is doable in your 3200 pound car and still keeping it streetable. John Massoud of Mass has a similar combo as mine in a '67 GS also similar weight he is street legal in Mass and John has run in the 9.60's. (These above times are all power no nitrous).

As with the water ports with filling the block, I know one way is using bee's wax (art supply store) mold it into a long rod and fit it inside the water port. after the hard block drys apply lite heat to the wax, it melts out and you have your new water ports inside the hardblock. This method was told to me years ago by Bernard Modello. I'm not a professional engine builder by far, so I'm sure there would be other methods. As for keeping the car on the street mostly, yes I would agree not to tall fill the block. Lastly not to burst the bubble here, if your budget is limited, 840 HP will definately be a stretch. As guys like Mike Garrsion and Doug Hecker will tell ya, "Horsepower in a Buick engine will run you money."

And if you can get your GS in the 2,000 pound range without having all fiberglass, carbon fiber and a tube chassis, please let me know. Currently my car is back halved and my 3,000 pound range is reachable, but another 1,000 pounds on that? And I have fiberglass doors, hood, deck lid, bumpers, lexan, tubular A-arms, Wildwood light weight brakes, along with everything I can remove.

The shot below is my '70 against John Massoud's 67 at Bristol. Both in the 9's, both 3200 pound car range, both low mid 700 HP range in HP

edited: Sorry Blair after re-reading your posts I forgot you plan on running juice. With the 455 engine either way to handle the juice on running that HP I would assume that the engine should be built the same as a straight (no juice) 800+ engine. Same goes as I now realize you are going to run it in a S10, but as we all know a 65 GS, like Doug Heckers car and an S10 are both bricks when it comes to cutting through the air. So regardless the cars the weight power ratio to HP shouldn't be different.

Best of Luck and keep your project rollin.:TU:
Rick

 

Rick - I think he may be referring to the S10 being 2000lbs.

 

Sorry mis-read that...its getting lateou:
Thanks
-Rick

 

Well, just ordered the block girdle from TA. There goes another 500.00. Man, I though motorcylces were expensive, well so are Buicks!!!

Anyway Rick since you brough up ET's and horsepower let give you my input on what I have figured out. In the past 6 months, since I don't have a running car, I have been observing my buddy's cars. I live in Texas, which is full of rednecks, everybody drives trucks, and they all have chevys as race cars. (Some fords but few and 1 dodge and 1 Pontiac) Anything else to these guys is just uncivilized. Anyway I have been trying to calculate people ET's by a simple power to weight ratio. All of these calculations were based on chevy's, all eight mile, no quater mile tracks around here besides Innis, and all are considering optimum traction with HP being estimated at crank (not rear wheel). Also all estimates are with a big tire car (small tire will go slightly quicker if you can get optimum trackion due to less recipricating mass) All of calculation are at 800 feet of elivation

If you are making 1 HP for every 4.9 pounds your car will run a 6.95 in eight mile (estimated 10.90 in quarter) If you are making 1 HP for every 3.5 pounds your car will run a 6.03 in eight mile (estimated 9.55 in quarter) If you are making 1 HP for every 2.75 pounds your car will run a 5.60 in eight mile (estimated 8.90 in quarter) With a whopping 1 HP for every 2.13 pounds you will run a 5.25 in eight mile (estimated 8.30 quarter) if you can break the 1 HP for every 1 pound expect to get 3.90's in teh eight and 6.20's in the quarter

The odd thing about this is that these buicks seem like they can make less HP to run the same times (According to my calculations) So maybe my car could get better than a 9.90 but that seems hard for me to beleive.

Anyway I went to www.campbellenterprises.com and found a race math calculator, which prove that my calcuations were correct. But as for these Buicks they seem to do it with less HP. Anyway I just had to bring this up because I found it to be pretty interesting. And by the way Rick, your Buick is not the only one to go against these calculations. I have found three others, but I have yet to find a chevy or ford which goes against these.

Blair Phillis

:stmad: :stmad: :stmad:

 

TORQUE!

Try using torque instead and see what you get.:grin: