Wow. Lawyer talk. Fine, whatever you say. Bring it out. :TU: BTW, I really am not a cocky person, but I do have a lot of fun. That photo was meant in jest, but I can see you didn't take it that way. Yes, Mark's car is very nice. See www.streetrockets.com. We're old friends, you'll see. Been after him for years to put manifolds and matching tires/rims and come run with us, but his come back has always been "why should I spend money to go slower?" No contradiction. The best 60 foot times with my car have been with Polyglas. It falls on its nose with slicks or the Sportsman tires. You learn to drive a small block 4 speed car differently. The low end torque thing was comparing a small block to a big block in seat of the pants feel, but the horsepower is pretty much the same. Nice try twisting my words around. Yup, you do it your way, I already have done it that way. Now I'm on to something a little tamer...... and in my opinion, a lot more fun. Nobody here thinks Casey and Darrell are the only ones to really make Oldsmobiles run in this type racing, they're just the only ones that actually have. You're right. I can't talk because I'm a second behind an auto car. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Can I talk if it gets faster this time? ou:
You know, ol' Bozo has a point. I was going to say the same thing, but was off line today. You spend all of your time tuning an engine to run on drag radials and modifing your launch to get out on those tires (a real stretch :spank: ) and then throw a whole different combo at the car. Take your time and learn how your car and tires react on launch and sharpen your skills on that. In the match races, the race is won and lost on the start line! :3gears: As for drag radials being more fun on the street? Personally, when I can buzz the p!$$ out of the tires and get a little smoke, that can be more than a little fun! :3gears:
Spin, no spin Things have really changed over the years with respect to spin/no spin in dragracing. No question the good tires take a lot of the guesswork out of the equation, let you go up to higher stall speed convertors, and certainly help with the consistency. Years ago, the theory was always to get the engine up in the power band and do a little more driving and let the tires do the work. Ever see a rear engine dragster run the 1/4, like Garlits? That's very similar to Street racing. That's where I grew up, and you learned to drive a totally different way. Pure Stock racing is the closest thing I've found to that and why I like it so much. Had I known from the start how much fun it was, Rob would never have been rowing the gears in my car. Very little of our racing was from a dead start back then and even at the dragstrips, we used flagmen . Was it faster? No, Was it more fun, I think so, at least to me. But a controlled tire spin isn't all bad, especially with a small block, stick shift, on these tires. These Polyglas tires don't go up in smoke when they spin a little, still pull very hard, and with a big gear, you can drive it out of the hole and keep the R's up. Any of us can blow them away with full throttle launches at any time, especially the big block guys. You can do that with Drag radials, too. Especially on the street. You develop a routine of slow release on the clutch with a slow mash on the go pedal, and try to still get a good light. But what what doesn't work for me is to try to avoid spin altogether with this car and setup. Very different world. Ever watch the Nascar guys leave the pits? I actually am up to close to 4500-5000 at launch at a track like Norwalk to keep it from nosing over. Stanton is more like 3000, and by the end of the meet, 2000 as the track goes away. But it still spins some. Tightening up the wrap on the secondary air valve (Q jets) or as Brian said, play with the orifices on the little vac motor, can take away a lot of the bog, but the engine still has to get up to 3000 quickly to get in the power band off the line. But that can actually hurt you as you change gears unless you're doing JJ style, full throttle, balls out, no-lift shifting. If you're just quick shifting with a throttle blip three times, that air door has a slight hesitation to reopen each time you hit the throttle. You lose time at each shift. Loosening it up avoids that, but you pay for it at the line. Like anything else, you're walking the fine edge. That's what makes this so much fun. With an automatic, once you hook, you mash and go one time, very different with the stick cars. Casey's car only goes through that bog one time. The Ramrod 60 foots him everytime at a good track like Norwalk (1.90's). He could fry the tires anytime he wants, too, as evidenced by the time he tried the M/T Sportsmans on his car at Stanton. But once he gets in to the power band, it stay there the entire run, and trucks right on by like I'm sitting still. If the Polyglas don't spin, you don't need more tire. That's why I didn't gain anything on my car trying the Sportsmans or even slicks. I guess they would on a greasy track like Milan. The Polyglas actually continue to pull real hard as they spin (up to a point) as evidenced by the brake pressure required in the burnout box. It's up to the driver and his right foot to stay close to, but not over that point. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. It's all a matter of what you set the car up to do and how you drive it.
Seeing as I was doing my taxes when I saw that pic, no I didn't take it in jest Dave. :laugh: Besides, a good throw down is fun now and again. I don't disagree with much you say, but I do find it hard to believe that you can't get a better 60 foot with slicks. Put more gear in that thing. :laugh: And I wasn't twisting your words around. I firmly believe that it is harder to launch a high torque car on those things. Guess I didn't make it clear enough that was the point I was making. Hell, mine box stock in serious need of a tune up would inferno the rears (275/60 Belted T/A's. seen those lately? :laugh: ) with 3.23 gears unless I walked it out much like you describe doing with yours. Minus the clutch of course. With some practice it would just haze them, transfering weight well, making for a good launch. As far as the tuning thing, I'm talking about tuning er up to get the best MPH without any variables off the line. Being an auto, I don't think carb tuning will be too big a deal when changing over to the bias plys. It is getting a Pro Gear timing set though for easy cam timing changes. Other wise, it's run it with your foot, ya know. :bglasses: Suspension setup will be important though. btw-I have seen pics of 70 W30's with Wide Ovals and Polyglass GT's. Which is correct? And more important, which hooks better? :laugh: "But that can actually hurt you as you change gears unless you're doing JJ style, full throttle, balls out, no-lift shifting. " There's another way to shift a 4 speed? o No: :3gears: Try it. You'll like it Dave.
It's the bog that gets you when you hook with the W31. The car doesn't spin much unless the track totally goes away. Just enough to keep the engine from bogging down. You have to go way high in RPM at launch to keep it from bogging (like over 5000) if you hook. I launch at Norwalk at about 4000, 2500 at others. Hard to slide the clutch with a Centerforce. Another difficulty with the stick is the tire shock. That can seriously affect the bog or spin and really plays hell with old suspension parts. At some tracks (like Atlanta), the four speed cars really have a hard time launching as we roll over the starting line as we bring up the RPM's. Need a 3rd foot to hold the brake. :laugh: The Polyglas tires really chew up the track and a big hole develops right where you're trying to launch. RH to LH lanes are also a big factor with the way we launch. At Stanton, I vary 500-1000 RPM depending which lane to use by the second day. Tires for the 70 W30 would be either Firestone Wide Ovals or Goodyear Polyglas. I don't think we used Polyglas GT's except the 60 series on the 72 Hursts. Maybe the 70 Pace cars, don't recall that one. Believe me , these tires aren't really the problem racing in Pure Stock or FAST. No one that's actually raced on them has the issue. If you just stab it, yes, but that's nowhere near as much fun or take as much driving skill as what we're doing. Then driving (especially with an automatic) becomes nothing more than reaction time once you dial in the car and tune it properly. Unless you want to sandbag and slam the brakes on at the end to keep from breaking out. If that's the case, go bracket race. :laugh: :laugh: Edit: Just read the results of the FAST race and here's Terry Pennington's times in his 3 elimination runs: 11.07@127.29 11.06@125.96 11.06@127.95 That's incredible consistency on Polyglas tires. Personally I'd be scared of running 127 MPH on Polyglas, but they sure don't give up anything at the starting line once you set the car up for them. Car is an automatic ZR-1 Camaro, I believe. With manifolds!
speaking of 4000 lbs. beasts....... My Silver 72 W-30 was turning 1.87 60 ft times last summer at Stanton, which we all know isn't the stickiest track in the world. This was done on huge G70-14 Wide Ovals and high performance W-Z manifolds :3gears: Maybe I should have thrown a set of sticky tires and headers on it, then I could have knocked two-hundredths of a second off my 60ft. I was only running 12.90's, so what would I know?
That would be "ZL-1", Dave! "ZR-1" was the high performance small block option on the '70-'72 and '90-'95 Corvettes...
Sorry, sorry. Sure glad I didn't go down to Commerce, but would have if the car had been together. Assume you didn't either?
Sounds like the Wide Ovals hook pretty good. Coker is the only supplier, right? I'll be happy to get 1.87's with repop tires and W/Z's. I'm afraid the A/C is going to hurt it on launch though. It better run a lot faster than 12.9's though. :3gears: :bglasses: (In case you don't know Tom, mine is more towards FAST legal than P/S. It isn't all stock. Just looks it.) Pennington could bracket race that "super rare '69 ZR1 Camaro". :laugh: Hope to see a bunch of these cars in June. Will be in the ladder with this car, but should still be fun.
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