I gotta do some running around. but I figured I'd toss this grenade over the wall and run ....... :bglasses: Just got the latest Musclecar Enthusiast where they did a dyno pull on a '70 W-30 motor. I will preface my comments with a very disappointed engine build that was done to the motor in the first place. I think a novice Olds guy could have built a motor better, but ...... With CAST IRON EXHAUST MANIFOLDS, correct QJet, intake, and a POINTS DISTRIBUTOR, etc., the motor made a best of 391 HP @ 5200 RPM with a best torque of 463 lb. ft. @ 3500 RPM. They then bolted on a set of Kooks Headers which are considered the PREMIER header for an Olds. You wanna know what kinda earth-shattering power it made ?????? ou: WITH HEADERS, the best the motor made was 402.5 HP @ 4900 RPM and torque of 486 lb. ft. @ 4000 RPM. How absolutely EMBARRASING is that !!! 11 HP and 23 lb. ft. by bolting headers on. They even made an additional 3.5HP by ditching the HEI and putting the old points distributor back in. :beer Another interesting point ...... Detweiler's CERTIFIED W-30 made 405 HP at the rear wheels ! He actually made more REAR WHEEL HP then they could make flywheel HP with HEADERS !!! HA HA HA HA HA HA !!! :moonu: :moonu: :moonu: All you Olds geeks that insist on running your dick-wad headers should pick up this issue. Gotta go ..........
well Casey.... :Brow: whats your recommendation (sp.) for the olds 350 and it's crappy single/dual exhaust manifolds o No: uzzled: I'm getting ready to buy an exhaust for my 68 in a few weeks and was going to run hooker headers and a 2-1/2 exhaust thanks Mark :bglasses: :3gears: :TU:
Case,love your new avatar :TU: :TU: ,oh BTW I seen your Olds on AMC ,And also the now famous Dave H :bglasses:
Well, 11 HP and 23 ft lbs is 11 HP and 23 ft lbs ..... Your mileage may vary. Funny how the HP peak moved down in rpm -- despite the torque peak moving higher in rpm. The only people claiming Kooks to be the premier Olds headers are those selling them. I can't stand their "anti-reversion" design. Personally, I think that's just code-speak for "I'm too lazy to shape the round primary tubes into rectangles to match the exhaust ports."
The value of any set of headers is depended on the overall HP / Torque curve (gain and or loss of) and not just the peak numbers. The number do seem to be a bit low, but it shows that the headers do work. On a mild Buick build-up I wouldn't expect too much more than that either. But I guess where talking Olds here, huh.
Keep in mind that premier also means premier price along with it. $550 for the headers. That HP/TQ gain is what id expect for $200 headers. Id take the cast setup over headers any day. :TU:
Hmmm. I'll have to pick up this issue. If a stocker is putting out 391 horses mine should hit the 480-500 I'm shooting for without much problem. (Gotta keep the A/C and power brakes happy, otherwise she might be a bit more. :bglasses: ) Gonna be interesting getting it done for Martin. Time is running short. Casey-You say Detweiler's was putting out 407 at the rear wheels. I thought I saw something posted here that those numbers were calculated as at the flywheel? btw-Posting the link to this thread to ROP right now. :laugh: :bglasses:
Nope -- that is REAR WHEEL HP .... My little ole W-31 is making 365 rear wheel. Figure a conservative 10% driveline loss, and I'm ticklin' 400 flywheel HP with a 350, manifolds, and a points distributor. :bglasses: Oooops.
I think the results would be a little different on a small block as someone already pointed out. The dyno gains at Olds Engineering on Production stock W31's were in the neighborhood of 25hp. Some of it due to moving the power peak higher up as it hadn't peaked yet at 6500. Would be interesting also on big blocks to compare the headers to manifolds that were not the preferred W/Z chambered types and more like the small block firewood pieces. Haven't been over to ROP yet, should be an interesting war between the "experts". :blast: I totally agree that headers don't help our Pure Stock and FAST configurations very much, but on a seriously modified engine, (Batten heads, Vistor manifold, stroker 9000 RPM diesel or Nascar blocks) they're mandatory. We put a set of el cheapo headers on the Ramrod, and showed virtually no gain even running them wide open (0.1 sec, 1 MPH). That was not with a factory cam, though. I think it would be different with the big overlap stock factory cam. Olds aftermarket stuff has quite a history of not really telling people the whole story on these "power adders" and claiming great gains. Mondello/Miller claimed that Joe's valley tray (shield under the intake) was good for 25 horsepower. Similar claims were made for crank scrapers. How many people bought cam and crank spacers thinking that was mandatory to stop cam walk? (Then tore up their engines inthe process). Sounds like Kook's headers are falling into that same trap. Only good thing to me about Kook's is they offer a set that will fit a small block in a 64-67 chassis and no one else does. Original plan on the 66 was a very hot 403 with a 200R4 and a 4.10. Abandoned that when I couldn't get any headers on it and the good big block manifolds wouldn't fit the small block engine. That engine's running mid 12's in an 86 442 now on pump gas with all the factory computer and emissions stuff intact.
where did motor peak at?5200 rpm?5000?where do headers really make a difference in the power band? i think headers help a small block more than a big block plus,headers are sexy. :3gears:
Just a header swap....any carb mods, jetting etc done in conjunction w/the swap? (haven't seen the article yet and haven't been to ROP yet today) Patton
In that case I'll be very disappointed if my W30 455 doesn't hit 500 on the dyno considering the internal work that has been done to it. If it wasn't for keeping the A/C and power brakes happy it would be much easier.
Anyone else notice that the testing was done in Golden, Co. Elevation 5000+. Does not help the header argument and doesn't make bragging hp at that alt.
Colorado Nothing from Colorado would surprise me anymore. From the Jon Benet travesty, to the overturn of the death penalty verdict of that animal because a jurist carried a bible, to the idiot professor who says that 9/11 victims deserved it.......Good lord, what a horrible place....almost as bad as Michigan! (Go green). :Brow:
