Guys, Please note same as GSE,There will be no Pro Street unless there is a commitment of 8 cars. So if you are in we need to let them know. Our motor was nt finished in time for BG,we will be ready for Columbus! Thanks
Im planning on being there...cant find rules for any headsup classes though..I was under the impression we would be doing Limited St. Fish
I emailed John C directly and asked about it. He said a minimum of 8 cars for each class for it to fly. We would use the same rules set for BG for both classes.
Is there no interest in the Heads Up Classes? Gary K,Warren,Steve Cagle, Ollie,Bruce,Perry,Gary L as of many more.........No response?
So is Buick Pro Street going to run off indexes in Columbus??? I don't know about the opinions of the other guys, but I was looking forward to running heads-up in Columbus...this is really frustrating the hell outta me. I sure wish some other folks felt the same way...why arent we talking about this...no one is signing up...is there ANY interest in running heads-up? Anyone?? Fish
Jtroop...I dont know what to tell ya,but,if there is no heads-up class other than GSE,I dont see how I could justify bringing my car..as much as it kills me...Ive been thrashing on it non-stop,first to make BG,now Columbus. The car is finally running and now I realize the classes are all bracket racing...think Ima go beat my head on a wall somewhere ..Fish
Fish, I understand and echo your concerns. However, the "index" deal for BOWLING GREEN 2008 only is my idea. I made this move to see if it will help build a turnout after talking to several racers who have participated in the classes in the past. I do not have anything to do with the rules for the BPG event. I suspect they will piggyback off my rules which is fine, but the "index" deal prolly wont happen until BG in 2008, so dont worry. As for my decision on the "index", I decided to try this to increase car count. Until you try running bracket style on a PRO TREE, you shouldnt knock it. The guys racing in the OPEN COMP format in BG this year absolutely loved it. It makes for some VERY exciting, very close racing. This year in BG the payouts were great, the weather was great, the track was great, the rules were fair and the turnout was low. As you know, for the last 6 months or so, I have been on here creating new rules and new classes with the assistance of EVERYONE, drumming up sponsorships, looking for cars to fill the classes, and promoting the heck out of these classes. We got a LOT of feedback, from a LOT of racers saying they would be in BG to participate. Once again and due to a plethora of excuses and other valid and not so valid reasons, very few cars showed up. The rules were very fair and the payouts were the best ever, but still no one showed up. Why? Where was everyone who voiced their opinion about the classes, helped with the rules, questioned the payouts, and promised to be in BG? A lot of work went into the thing, and guys still didnt care enough to show after they said they would. Point being this. I dont think any of it matters anymore. There just arent enough racers ready at the same time that are willing to go the distance to compete in these classes anymore. There are enough cars out there, but not enough that are always ready at the same time and willing to travel to the show. I dont think anything you, me, John Gentner or anyone else does is going to change that and draw the big crowds of yesteryear. I am going to "test" the PRO TREE BRACKET thing for BG 2008 to see what happens. It will level the playing field 100% in all of the classes. If that doesnt work, then I will be out of ideas. Besides, it cant get any worse than this year.
I understand Jim...yours is a job I don't envy,and you really are doing a good job at it...you are right,it can't get any worse than this year. It's an excuse,but I couldn't keep my water and oil from gettin together so I couldn't come with the car. I was there to watch,and it was a good show...let me know if I can do anything to help...Fish
Fish, You should have said hi! I spoke to Rick, and yours was one of the very FEW valid reasons for not being there. Rick said you thrashed but luck wasnt on your side. I can relate to that for sure. Give the index thing a try in BG next year in Pro Street. Trust me this one time. I think you will like it more than you think. Here is something I have been pondering for a few days. I want you to think about it too and run it by Crawford, Ackley, Kubisch and the other guys. IF we do the index thing in Buick Pro Street next year. What do you and the other limited street guys think about allowing spray into the class? That would pretty much cover the limited street big block guys, and with the index the naturally aspirated guys arent gonna have a problem. It should also bring in a few more cars to the Pro Street ranks. Just a thought since we have some time. Certainly not written in stone at this time, just a thought at this point for discussion.
Hehe..I was gonna start begging to use the gas next. Yeah I've been outta the mix for 2 years and this was my 1st chance back to any track and Everything fought me..hell even monday when I went to put the new BG carb on,I noticed it did'nt have freakin pump cams. How the hell does that happen. but I fired it anyway,had to juggle the starter button,run the throttle with my hand and give it pump shot with my pinky...it was a little out of time,so when it coughed back,I burned off some arm hair...smelled bad. Anyway...I was the fat,blond guy with the camera following Rick around..I'll talk with you at Columbus if you are going...I'm kinda passionate about the whole racing deal with the Buicks and I Really wanna see something cool go down either at Columbus or wherever....hell I've been thinking about it at work and remembered wayyyy back when we would go race at the BOP nationals in Commerce...does that still happen??? Anyway...I was considering reaching out to all the Olds,Pontiac and Buick guys in the South to see if they wanted to rumble in Commerce,Jackson,Bristol,Orlando or wherever...nitrous,blowers,turbos,big inch NA..anything goes kinda like with the old super street weight breaks. Sound like it could work?...is anyone else thinking the same way? or am I just nucking futz? Fish
The BOP thing doesnt happen any more, at least in Commerce. WE COULD, however, put something together with ORSCA down here, to piggyback into one of their events at Commerce or Jackson or Phoenix City, the ROCK or somewhere else, and run a BOP thing. I "happen" to know how to make that happen with ORSCA. We would need to set up our own class though, unless you think we can go 5.20's and be competitive in one of their "entry level" classes. :ball: Spray is spray. Run it through the other guys and see what they think about it. I spoke to Heaps and he seems to be cool with it at this point.
Jim,you are the man :TU: I think ORSCA has alot to offer and if we are able to be part of their program,it would be a great thing. I looked into Modified Street,but it's small block only,unless they are willing to let the big blocks add weight. Thanks again for your time and effort in looking to solve problems. What should be our first step in setting up our class? Thanks...Fish
After just returning from the NMCA race in Columbus last night, this thread hits a few things I have seen and talked to others about this past weekend. Folks, these gas prices are having an impact on the car counts with everyone. Some don't want to admit it but they are. I have been traveling and racing all over the eastern half of the US and Canada since 99 and I see what is happening. Jim, that is one reality you have to take into account. Next, and some will hate me saying this, but I just don't see many people out there that really want to race a V8 Buick. I have raced with 4 different organizations and 2 or 3 different classes and there has NEVER been more than a couple or three Buicks out racing. These organizations come to several areas of the country, but the Buick people just don't come out and race. The Chevy and Ford people are there, but not many BOP (more Pontaic). If the people are not coming out to race in their backyard, I doubt they will travel 100's of miles to race. Example, this weekend in Ohio, there was myself and Dale Wofford (65 Special) racing in NSS and one guy from New Jersey racing a 68 GS350 in NMC. Now that is in the middle of Ohio where I know there are a lot of cars and people on the board. My personal feeling is that most Buick people want to have a street car and a show car and race it a little too and talk about racing it on the internet. There is just very few people that are willing to spend the money and time to race a Buick. Like I said I've been out there doing it for 9 years nationally and I can count on one hand the people that have been out there with me in a Buick. I praise Jim Rodgers for trying, but I just don't know how you get the people to do it. I know there are people with cars that will fit the classes but they are keeping them at home. Sorry for the long thread, but that's what I see from an old fool out trying to recover his youth by racing a Buick. Jim Netherland 671 B/NSS NSCA 7012 B/NSS NMCA 67 Buick GS 400
If it helps anyone,there will be a BOP race in Gainesville,FL in Dec. For info check it out on Buick Performance.I think the first weekend of Dec.Last year it rained out the first weekend but the second was good.Just keep it in mind. Mike Nussell
Jim Netherland, I think you are correct. I've been banging around the buick world since 1990 and since I'm in the military it has been a part time thing at best, but over the years I have come to realize that V8 Buick people are a much different breed most others. I've only been to the nationals twice and I went to Indy last summer so I have limited experience at buick venues, but it seems that 95% of the V8 buick "racers" are just there for the fellowship. Now this is not wrong by a long shot, but if you look over to the v6 guys (TSO, TSM and such) and they are thrashing on cars tring to get that last tenth or trying something new "Alpha males". While there are a few hard core V8 guys making it happen, for the most part its; make a pass, walk around or grill some chow until they call the class to the staging lanes: repeat. In fact if for some reason TA Performance did recall on 308 cams we would loose half the car count. We are just that sheepish as a collective group. It kills me to see all of these chassis cars (big dollar) running a bracket class. No one in the free world (NHRA/IHRA) runs a chassis car in a index or bracket class, why do we. So with all of the high dollar race engines and chassis cars floating around we know that there are plenty of well off buick guys around. But trying and get just 6 or 8 simular cars togather to make a heads-up class and all you hear are crickets. BLUF...........I don't think I could handle another BUICK event where the TOP DOG class is S16 and the winners are just a hair quicker that F.A.S.T. class. I'll spend my hard earned cash getting my butt handed to me in Outlaw 10.5. Hats off to you guys making a buick showing at other events outside the buick fanasty land.
Jim Netherland, I agree with your post. The above is from a post I made a few weeks ago on another board. The gas prices are hurting attendance. Guys and gals are either keeping their cars at home, or only attending the events closest to them. But gas prices arent the only thing. There is a bigger picture here in my opinion and I think I touched on some of it above. Add the fact the economy has dipped, many of the die hards have kids now, general living expenses have increased lately, blocks are harder to find, and performance has increased at such a dramatic rate over the years that most dont want to "chase the rabbit anymore". Its gotten too expensive. I remember when the high water mark in GSE was 11.50's and everyone was shocked and we were all worried about it killing the class. I guess my only point is that there are many many reasons that there are not enough cars to fill these classes anymore, at any of the ALL Buick events. I have about come to the conclusion that the classes will never again be what they used to be no matter the payout, the rules, the location or anything else.
