First off, a big thank you to you guys for all the info. If nothing else, you have given me some good reasons to reconsider getting rid of the lil 350. If it is in fact possible to reach near 500 hp numbers with an almost stock 350 with the addition of a single turbo, then that definately has some appeal.
Larry if it wasnt for loosing a job for a bit and then less then a year later after finding a steady job breaking my leg and 5 months of no work due to that injury...i'd have a fricking forged twinturbo motor a ways back haha \ but by this spring i'll definatly have the twin turbos on the stock 73 motor..but i'll run the stock engine before hand to compare 1/4 times i'll just hold off on the built motor for a bit...like when i have my suspension done and new sp400 and 3in pypes xpipe exchange system on :-D
Very true however for only 500 hp, it is very simple to run a Turbo on a 350 now that mark has a single kit that works with stock manifolds. One would just need a fuel system upgrade, blow through carb, and a few other small mods.
You mean spend a ton of money on forged parts, custom cams, and fancy head gaskets? If 500hp on a budget isn't right, then yeah, it isn't simple. I am the only one I know of with a running 350 turbo setup. That's the problem. If more guys were finished with their builds, more folks would see it isn't a big deal. Doing it right doesn't mean spending a lot of money. Doing it right means it makes power, runs good, and is reliable. It is like any build, tuning is the key, not spending. But what do I know, I didn't do it "right".
I am getting kind of tired of your defensiveness every time someone comments on the 350. Let me get one thing out in the open. I am a big fan of musclecars, especially Buicks. My first car was a 72 Buick Skylark custom, 350-2. I put over 250,000 miles on her, and that was my start in Buicks. If I still had her, I'd be one of your customers. It isn't simple to do, but it may be very affordable to do a single turbo set up. Anytime you modify from stock, there are unforseen problems that crop up. That is true of auto mechanics in general. Seeing is believing. I want to see some of these engines. I can't wait to see what they can do. I am not criticizing anyone here who wants to do this. I do find it kind of amusing though when I see some guys who have all kinds of problems with their cars talk about adding twin turbos when they haven't even gotten their cars to run right in the first place. To do something like turbo an engine, you have to at least be able to turn a wrench, and have some tuning know how. Lighten up and spare me the sarcasm, will ya?
Sorry man, you're right. I get a bit jumpy but it isn't all at your post, and it isn't about the 350 in general. That's what we have Sean for! It is stuff on other forums, as well as a general thought of turbos being a big pain, and having to be complicated. I guess there are 2 schools of thought. School #1 is doing it "right" with all the engine internals, EFI, O2, laptop datalogging, timing controllers, boost controllers etc. School #2 is about just making it run hard on a budget. The part I'm sick of is when folks insist you need all the fancy stuff. It is no harder to tune a boosted engine than it is to tune any modified engine. I wish my car didn't burn up the transmission or I would have track time. My car has run great with the turbos, I just keep changing things like any other gearhead to get more out of it. I don't know of anyone who has posted up about running their turbo car and having all kinds of problems. Larry, you contribute a lot of valuable info and firsthand experience to the board. I don't know how much turbo building you've done, it could be more than me. I just want people to know that with moderate goals (like 500hp) and modern carbs, aftermarket self tuning EFI systems, a low boost turbo build can be fairly simple. Sorry again for coming at you like that. Are we cool?
dat da da daahhhhhhhhh Tony to the rescue- Opps cape just flew over my head! Ok, you are both right and now we are going to prove it. Mark I procured the 350. Larry you want to see one. You will, I am hoping by June. And not only will you see it, but if I can get your ass out here, you will work on it. 1st thing I gotta do is get rid of the 455 stuff. 2nd, After Chris does his swap, we drop the 350 in my Lark. I have Everything else ready to go. 3rd After the engine goes in, Mark send me a kit. 4th -tune it, Beat the snot out of it, break it and rebuild :beers2: :3gears: :TU:
I think that one of the things that you are up against is most of us don't know much about turbo's. We know that they are in a very hot environment and that they spin very fast. This is usually a recipe for failure. Many of the people with their doubts about turbo setups didn't drive a Grand National 20 plus years ago and figure out that a turbo car was cool like I did, and I don't know how many have listened to Mr. Banks talk about how to make an engine run. I have learned more about average Joe being able to run a turbo on the car of his choice here than anywhere else thanks to you and a few others. I use to think that an after market turbo setup was only for mustangs and the few other cars that places like Summit lists a kit for. Just keep educating us and the turbo lurkers will become turbo drivers then turbo preachers over time!
The example I make reference to very often, is the trucking industry. These rigs are all about run time. They need to run long and hard, with minimal maintenance. When they are down for repairs, it costs more than the repairs, it costs the work that could have been done while the rig was out. Almost that entire industry uses turbos. That alone should be the most compelling evidence that despite the horrid conditions they are made to endure, they do in fact endure them, and have done so for decades. The tricky part for guys trying to turbo V8's is that they used to have to make their own carbs for blow through and tune in the dark. Now, my first choice recommendation for folks is to get one of those new retro EFI kits. No more sorting out pumps, regulators, carbs, and lines. Buy the EFI kit, install it, and let it learn. I also think it is getting much closer to the cost of a blowthrough carb system.
Yes we are cool:TU: I'm hoping to see some SBB kicking but next season. Looks like I'll see one up close with Tony's build. Are you using any kind of a boost reference ignition retard, or do you just use lower timing depending on max boost levels? That and proper fuel supply and blow through carb have to be the main tuning issues. Thanks for bringing this and other innovations to market. I admire your work:TU:
Me Too Antney!!! I might be able to be of some value during this endeavor. And your close too!!!:TU: Larry. Step back and take a long deep breath. Oooooooommmmmmmmmm!!!:laugh:
Step back my butt, you and me gonna be elbow to elbow giving Antney some moral support while he's under the car:laugh:
Thanks for the supportive comments! As for these questions, I am running locked timing at 28 degrees on 8psi. I might pull a bit more timing when I kick up the boost. Hoping to try 12psi after the intercooler install this winter. Fuel supply is the biggest issue. It is important that the pump is able to support the flow requirements at least 5psi over boost pressure. Most pumps are rated at free flow, so choosing the pump is key. For low boost, the carb is really no big deal. A swap meet Holley with solid floats is fine for around 6psi. I do suggest folks just spring for a purpose built carb or EFI though because it will take more boost later on without having to mod it a bunch.
Bill I know I will be tapping you as a resource so be ready. Thanks for the offer:TU: Mark how much boost should a single turbo be expected to produce without pushing the limits
Gee.. I might be 1st...Well third after Mark and James.. I think I am first with the roller rockers :TU: which I just wound up to 6000 RPMs in 1st gear at 65 MPH.. Over and over again.. Can't wait to get the gears installed next week. I have been beating the total snot out of this engine to make sure it is worthy.. I have wound it to 6000 RPMs probably 50 times since the rebuild and it doesn't seem to give a sh*t.. Timeframe for me is sometime in March. Maybe sooner..
That's what I'm talkin' about! Tony, a single turbo can make as much boost as twins. All that matters is the size of the compressor, the size of the turbine and the size of the plumbing. With a good sized single you could make 20psi. I don't know of any 350's that will hold that kind of boost though. Then again, maybe mine will! Guess I'll just have to find out next year.
