I think the oil companies will be very resistant to higher gas taxes as their market share will be diminishing. They will still be supplying lubricants and fuel for aviation as well as ingredients for plastics, etc. They will still have a powerful lobby and will not be shy about using it. There is also the trucking industry and the agricultural lobby that won't like the hit that that will be taken by farmers who grow crops (mostly corn) for the Ethanol that is blended with gasoline. Another issue is how to tax the owners of EVs; it would be grossly unfair that EV drivers will get free use of the roads and bridges that are largely paid for by the users of fossil fuels. It would be unfair to raise everybody's electric rates just to get tax revenue from EV owners. My thought process envisions a couple of standard electrical plugs and sockets that would fit only EV chargers that would have a usage meter on that dedicated outlet. The reading could be transmitted electronically to a computer in a vehicle that is driving by. This was how water meters were read when I lived in Medway, Massachusetts. I am not so naive that I don't believe that some folks will find a way to cheat on EV taxes, but fines and license and/or registration suspensions should keep cheating to a minimum.
John, Most of us have portable 220v chargers as well as a dedicated 220v level II charger wired directly to the panel. No one would ever know the dedicated charger is here and, since we wired ours ourselves, there is not even a record of it other then a nine year old receipt somewhere. The portable charger can plug into any 220 outlet and has a 30' reach. It only charges at 16 amps while the dedicated charges at 32 amps. I have attachments for almost all 3 and 4 wire plugs. I could pug into a dryer plug, stove plug, well plug (if it is not wired direct) or any 220 outlet that might be available for welders, ect in the garage. This would be completely impossible to detect. It is very handy when visiting someone at the higher end of our 300 mile range. Cheryl
I think the taxation of EVs will be at purchase or registration. There’s no way around the VIN. (The tax credits for them now are done by VIN I think.) As they become more mainstream I think the current credits will go away and then the taxes will come, and this all will happen at a speed determined by who’s in power on the state and federal level. We could even see federal credits and state taxes. To be fair the tax could be based upon an average yearly mileage with a credit back provision for people who verify low miles (but that will be deliberately difficult and troublesome to claim by design). A lot will depend upon whether the powers that be view EV owners as ‘us’ or ‘the rich’. Patrick
They may not know that you have an electric charger, but they do know that you have an electric car. Even someone as dumb as I am can conclude that if you have an electric car it falls within the realm of possibility that you have an electric charger. The "someone at the other end" may be generous and pay for your full "tank" of electricity, but we are going to have to establish an etiquette for that situation. If folks who visit us are going to expect that we pay for their fuel, I am going to sharply reduce the number of our visitors.
Well, I could give you the $4.50 for 45 KWH and you might make a profit at 10 cents per KWH depending on your energy company. That would get me 200 mi toward home in addition to whatever is left in the battery. I know my parents don't nickel and dime us over it when bringing the grandkids. We just plug into the garage: no questions asked! I am thinking that milage would be better to charge by for road taxes. These cars have an extensive tracking system for miles as it projects range dependant on use. They also report and communicate wirelessly to the parent company on this and other traffic/navigation data. You can even get a report on your reporting. The Leaf had it as part of their Carwings. I am not even sure what or to whom the Bolt is currently reporting. Cheryl
I saw where a man got in trouble for plugging his EV into a receptacle at a school while waiting to pick up his children. He didn't have permission to use their electricity but was doing it anyway. Also, if you have an electric golf cart when you go camping, lots of campgrounds charge you $5 more per day to cover the cost of charging your cart. I wonder if they are doing something similar with people with EV's.
MN spent 5 million dollars doing a MBUF (Mileage based user fees) study in the middle of the last decade. In a nutshell, the conclusions were that it is possible, but serious errors and issues would arise, and it will take a considerable investment in infrastructure and an ongoing cost of a labor force to oversee it all. I would bet you that taxes will not be mileage based.. since the road tax lobby really does not exist, politicians will do what they always do.. figure out the easiest and most efficient way to remove money from your wallet. Road taxes will eventually be added to the yearly registration fee, and all EV owners will pay them. Regardless of mileage.. I am sure there will be some convoluted method of getting a state and Federal refund by proving your low mileage, so the politicians can hide behind that, knowing full well that most of the American public will not bother to apply for the refund. ....... and they won't be cheap.. Considering the state and federal tax load on a gallon of gas (currently 47c a gallon in MN) I base my number off the average that we are all paying now. Average mpg for new cars is around 25, so we can figure that with the mix of older vehicles and worn out stuff, the actual mileage is more like 15 or so. So for the average driver, covering 12K miles a year, they buy 800 gallons of gas, and pay $375 in fed and state taxes. That won't be what they charge, as they will have to increase that dramatically, to account for the folks that drive twice as much or more. I would bet the first levy of tax will be around $500 for an EV. Of course, if the big tech companies get involved, then they will lobby for an actual mileage based system.. and if they can get that, depends on how powerful their lobby is. I would not at all count out the possibility of state and fed govs spending millions of dollars, to set a system up that will bring waste and inefficiency to new heights. JW
What's wrong with that? His tax dollars pay for that electricity. On another note - We really are going to have to develop an EV etiquette (as I posted earlier). A bunch of issues are going to rear their ugly head. Here's an example: Almost all of our Florida friends live in another county; it's a 50 mile trip each way. Most electric vehicles have that much range, but not with the AC on one way and the lights and AC on during the return trip. I'm not so cheap that I can't eat a battery charge now and then, but what if we have two guest coming from different places in separate EVs? I only have one (or possibly no) charger. I guess that they will have to bring their own portable charger and I wind up paying for the fuel for two cars. Not long ago someone posted a chart showing the amount of time that it took with a 120 volt charger to provide any reasonable range for an F-150. It was a long time. Conclusion? If EVs are ever going to be a practical replacement for the IC engine-powered cars of today, the charging times are going to have to go down - way down. Possibly a built-in fast charger will become standard house equipment.
Just because your tax dollars pay for something doesn't mean you can just go take something that they bought. Once the government takes your tax dollars it is their money and whatever they buy with it is theirs, not yours. Stealing electricity is still stealing.
All the 110v chargers are horribly slow. They usually come with the vehicle, are all portable and can be upgraded to a level 1 portable 220v charger. Our previous EV, a Nissan Leaf, had a 24 KWH battery that from empty would take 18 hours to charge on the 110v charger, 6 hours to charge on the 16 amp 220v level 1 charger and 3 hours to charge on the 32 amp 220v level 2 charger. That would give you anywhere from 80-100 miles of range. Our 2019 Bolt has a 60 KWH battery and charges from fully discharged to full in about 8 hours on the level 2 charger. It has a range of 250-280 miles: usage dependent. The Bolt charges a little faster at 7.2 KW vs the Leaf at 6.6 KW.
That was intended as tongue in cheek. You are obviously correct, I just didn't think anyone would take it seriously. If it were serious you could just "borrow" a police officer's gun.
Yes. Believe it or not most folks are familiar with cold weather and traffic jams. You can Google this and get real information. PSA- memes are not a good source for logical information!!
God Bless you! Why don't you do that and show us how you miss a meme's point? OH! That's right you have!
Send all the EV Mustangs to NORWAY . I thought the US POWER grid was in trouble . Plug your car in so our light can go OFF !!!!! LONG live the gas engine ! Bill PS I'm 79 so what do I know .
Actually the point of that meme is to spread panic. Ironically it's a valid question/ concern. Undoubtedly an EV will eventually go dead. The meme paints a doom and gloom scenario trying to spread fear that EVs will kill you in the winter. The author could have spent the time to actually research the topic- how long can an EV sit an provide heat in a traffic jam? But its much more gratifying/easy to spread nonsense than it is to supply information. I get the point of the meme, I'm not dumb enough to fall for it though.
Actually, the U S power grid is in pretty good shape (with the exception of Texas). It does face challenges due to climate change; the Southwest uses a lot of hydroelectric power and it is in the worst drought in recorded history. Most businesses and homes are becoming more energy efficient due to the switch to LEDs, better insulation, and more efficient appliances. A significant number of homes have installed solar panels, reducing their power footprints. The grid should be able to handle EVs for the foreseeable future. Certainly over time their will have to be some upgrades to the grid, but that would happen anyway.
Eventually a gas powered vehicle will run out of gas while idling to keep the engine warm and heater going. With an EV, you are only running the heater or seat warmers or steering wheel warmer as needed to stay warm. The main motor is not running or running very little to move ahead only slightly. I have sat in the EV waiting in the winter below freezing for over an hour in the past many times in the last nine years. That had very little impact on the battery mileage available before sitting. It is ridiculous to think one would run out of battery power just sitting for three hours in the cold. If you left with your gas tank almost empty or your battery low then you would probably suffer a similar fate. Gridwise, most people charge their EVs overnight when energy use is generally lower and sometimes cheaper depending on your electric company. It can be programed to charge whenever you like. Cheryl
