for Buick small block LOVERS let the flaming begin.

I realize how frustrated you are with me. I do understand what your telling me, and I do not make any claim to any large amount of experience, yes i've built a couple good small block chevys, the one we had in the drag car made 237 hp at the wheels. But I'm only just learning. I started this thread because I was fed up and frustrated more than anything and I apoligise for the rant. I wasn't told what the gear ratio was, I used an rpm calculator that took into account my tire size, speed, and rpm, it came out with 3.30, because it's a 12 bolt posi this would make sense, as they did come with that gear in some cases. The cam could indeed be a dud which would sacrifice ALOT, but even with a worn out stock cam I would assume it would perform better than this. It does seem a little strange that there are a bunch of people making 230 whp and 280 ish wheel torque out of what you guys call a "well tuned" absolutely stock buick 350. And I beleive they said that they were the low compression engines as well. A well tuned high comp 350 would seem more realistic for those numbers, with say a 212 cam, and a really tweaked q jet, and intake and headers. But all these guys seem to have stock manifolds... So I'm not going to argue with experience but it does seem like a lot of hp for just a good 'tune'.
I did not try to insult your intelligence, lets get that straight.
If not the trans, I just cannot see how the car performs sooo badly, it runs perfectly, sounds healthy, no nasty high mileage type bottom or top end noises, no blue smoke, just leaky.. My buddys stock 85 ranger long box just ran almost the same time as my car did at the track this weekend. It has to be something more than the cam is stock, or the tune isn't right.
I apoligise for the amount of agitation I seem to have caused you over this Lightningbird.

-Ryan

 

"It has to be something more than the cam is stock, or the tune isn't right."

An improper tune can and will cause problems with any brand engine. So I feel that you are wrong in saying "it has to be more than the tune" .

 

I think your tranny is sucking the ever living life out of the possible performance the car could make. If you can change that out, you will come back here a happier man. Even if you are eventually going with a 455 a stout rebuilt tranny will be need and easily swapped to that engine. You would not be doing anything that you won't benefit from in the future if you were to do it now.:TU:

 

It has to have something to do with the tranny, I disagree with lightningbird in that the trans may not be completely torched but that doesn't mean it can't be slipping.

 

I thought that it was streetable. Though the vacuum reading is at 5, I had to use a 2.5 power valve. Yes you need to have notched pistons. I ran a 3500 stall convertor but I could only foot brake it to about 2750 rpm. This needed to be looser maybe to about 3200 on foot brake.
The intake you have would work great for this cam. When I ran the 2 inch spacer it raised the rpm about 200 more. With the 1 inch spacer (open) I had 395 horse on a engine dyno from 5900 to 6200 rpm the torque was at 370 at 4000 and at 5000 rpm.
I would use at least a 410 gear with this cam. The car sounded very mean and it didn't give up on the top end like the Lunati cam I have now does and it is larger than yours. This cam had the whole car shakin.

 

Well if it is pouring all of that oil out how do you expect it to run good dyno numbers. That is probably getting all over everything and slowing down your engine. the 455 is going to require a 400 trans the 350 will be ok but it wont last long if the 455 puts out more than just stock.

 

I realize that, I have a line on a really built TH-350 that will handle about 650 pounds of torque and 700 horsepower. Thanks to a board member, I hope that it works out because then I wouldn't need to change my driveshaft or trans mounting location for a TH400, and I wouldn't need the TH400 wierd kickdown. The 455 is going to have 10:1 comp with ported iron heads, the large stainless valves, still deciding on a cam... Headers, 3200 stall, SP1, Holley 1050HP, it should be pretty stout, for a basic iron street motor. Not trying to offend you guys who have wicked 350's, I've always wanted a big block car so i've been planning the swap for a long time. I just wanted to see if I could have a little bit of fun with the 350 before getting into the expensive long big block swap.

 

hey ryan, i have seen your car at the track and i do think that your tranny is weak,i also think your gears are higher that 3.23 or 3.3 (lower numerically) on another thread it sounds like you are going to pull the 350 and see whats going on and fix the oil leaks very good idea, but before you do do a compression test even if you allready have before do it again and write it down, then when you are pulling the engine apart do not be to quick, check every thing ie check the valve lift and check the degree of the cam then you know for sure what things are (its also good practice for rebuilding)its all a learning prosses as to what works and what does not work and why,if you just throw the 350 away you will not know why it did not perform the way you thought it should, and you can not drive your car any more, change the leaky gaskets and find out via checking not just pulling the cam what it is i have seen stock rebuild cams with no numbers so you will never now what it is, maybe the cam was installed off and you might be able to advance it for better performanmce or change it for a better on but again check it first then you know, i dont know if you have degreed a cam before or not again good practice or learning experiance, then put hte motor back in hopefully it will be a fairly low buck fix, and you can have fun with it until you can afford the bbb, and change that tranny or at least bring it to a good tranny shop and get it checked, sorry for the long post just trying to help jamie

 

Only 400 Horse? Hmm.

Some people say I need a bigger cam and they would be correct however, I no way off installing new pistons. So I'm out of luck for now.

 

I always wanted a big block car too, until I discovered what the SBB could actually do. Getting big power from a BBB requires a hell of a lot of money to make it live, lots of band-aids. The little Buick can make 1000 on the stock block with no mods. NO BBB can do that.

Your dyno numbers are off because the trans is zapping power. period. Chances are, your engine is in the low 200s, which is plenty to get these car going. Your trans is killing you. It has been touched on here, but I will repeat- Chassis dynos measure the end result, not just the engine. A good th350 will soak up 15-20% of your horsepower. Consider 20% and you are already looking at 188 hp, if it is slipping, even a little, your parasitic loss goes up big time. Your rear end and driveshat can soak up a little too, but most of it is in the trans.

My stock '71 350 made 267 hp at the flywheel, churned the tires with the stock 3.42 gears with the 850 Quad. Switched to a 750 holley-total dog. I am currently using an 800 Demon, not bad, but the motor has been built to the tune 400 hp (LOTS of porting, big cam, etc). The heads are where all the power is at. So no matter what you build, spend the most on the heads.

Consider a 2004R, they are way stronger, better geared AND you get that extra bonus of an overdrive. You don't need th400, you need a better trans with better gears. If a stock 2004R can handle 10-sec blasts in a GN, then it will handle anything you can wring out of a SBB or BBB.

Good luck with it. Don't give up. But if you do, PM me. I have a sheetmetal intake that will fit the little Buick and a supercharger on the shelf to match. Been looking for a low comp 350 anyway.........

 

I have been told differentley that 200R4's were good until 400 hp with a

big block in front of them.

I dont know personally ive never owned that type of tranny but what I

was told in my trans class at college is that the Th400 is the beefiest

tranny for draggin.Anyone agree or disagree?Although a goddamn

overdrive would be nice with these 3.73's somedays,:beer :beer

 

Hey guy wich lunati cam do you have???And did you use notched pistons with the 410 cam?

 

I'm not pissed....just hate when people come to the 350 board and all they do is put it down and say they wanna swap to a 455. Go to the 455 board and say it....cause I'm content with my 350. My 350 Buick experience was really cool and it had rough times but I kept at it and figured the thing out. I just wanted you to at least not look at all these posts as....BBAAAHHH, yeah right what do you know!!! Some of these guys are racing legends, own Wally's, set speed records, blew TA Mike Sr's doors off. They know what they are talking about. You need to respect that. That's all I gotta say bout that.

OK, if your tranny goes into all gears, it's not slipping. Smell the tranny fluid. If you do not know what burnt tranny fluid smells like....smell a new bottle of fluid then smell yours. It will smell like anything burnt with tranny fluid mixed with it. The reason that I say your tranny can't possibly be slipping cause there is 1/8 inch of clutch material on the clutch. If it slips, that's gone and you will lose the gear. The converter may be junk....I agree with that. Pull the tranny lose in the garage, replace rear main seal on cool 350 buick and converter with 2400, replace front seal on tranny, bolt back up. You have a converter.....get greasy. I would sell my left nut to be in your position, take advantage of it.

:laugh:

 

Have you done track testing or dyno time with the sheetmetal intake?

 

Keep in mind your heads flow FAR better than Guys, so you can make more power then he did if you get a solid bottom end under there with some reliefs in the pistons.

 

sorry Lightning, but that just isn't accurate. Just because the trans shifts to all gears does not mean it isn't slipping. Yes, the clutch material is very thin, but slipping does not always mean it has been worn away. There are several things that can cause slipping- loss of line pressure ie a stuck or worn valve in the valve body, glazing in the clutches from being overheated similar to faded brakes (you drum brake guys know what I'm talking about), a warped drum can cause slipping too. On top of that, the clutches and the shifting are not tied together nor are the mutually exlcusive. You can have some slipping and still shift, shifting all depends on line pressure and valving and rpm.

The torque convertor could be part of the problem. The trans may be fine but if the TC is worn out, it will slip more (all TCs slip, period unless they are in lock-up mode for an overdrive)

While I agree that a trans that shot won't shift (though it will shift through the gears until it hits a gear that is completely blown, ie 1&2 and then 3rd is blown), a little slippage can have serious parasitice effects on the horsepower at the dyno. Note that the kid got more power output in second than he did in third- that screams bad trans. He is likely losing third, and the rest of the trans will follow suit. It almost ALWAYS goes from high gear to low gear when you lose clutches in a trans.

 

The 2004R is a very strong trans. To make it live behind monster (beyond 500) power, you only need a couple of things, like a better sunshell gear and a billet 4th-gear servo. that's about it. Just ask Art Carr, at California transmissions, he loves the 2004R. for a non-electric trans, it is the BEST overdive, AND it has both the BOP and Chevy bolt patterns, so all of us Buick guys can use it. can't get much better than that.

 

ive been wanting a 200r4 but i seriously doubt a built one would take the torque from a twinturbo build janis transmission is also another great builder of this particular trans

 

I want to try that 510 cam! I got everything I need except a bottom end!:rant:

 

If GN guys can run 10s I think they have potential to be beefed up enough for use in a turbo car.