Wow! That's a lot of W31's in one small area for a car that ultra rare. Now I know why all the numbers keep growing each year. They're breeding in Canada! W31's NEVER had notched bumpers. Exhaust was tiny and no trumpets would fit it, plus it took away the stealth concept theme from them. All had N10 dual exhaust with turned down tips hidden up under the bumper lip. The W31 package also wasn't available on Cutlass Supreme (4200 series) or the Rallye 350. Cutout bumpers and trumpets were used and available only on 442 and Rallye 350. I don't think the Supreme SX had them either, but mine did. :Brow: SX (455) was the only performance option available on the Supremes. It was also known as the W32 option.
Hey Rusty: Just noticed your signoff has your 2005 time and et as 13.57 @ 102.5. What's the last digit on that MPH? I ran a 102.57 and just want to know if my car is faster than yours!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: (We won't talk about the 60 footer or the et on that run though.) uzzled: :ball: Talk about driving it like you stole it! :af: :rant: :af: Even Benoit (who was behind me) was impressed! :Brow:
Sorry to get your hopes up Dave, I looked at the stat sheet that Frank put out and I see that I was lying! The best run was 13.574 @ 102.61 :sleep: :boring: ! Food for thought: I printed out the stat sheet and with my high tech pencil, I ran through what would have been the 2 of 3 pairings. The Canadian cousins would have had the top pair (duh), Dudek and Spetzmen would have been a race, Rob Clary would have raced Tracy Doyle's 440 Challenger R/T, Riebel's Vette would have raced Glasco's Formula Firebird, Tim Clary and Darrel Detwiler would have butted heads, Joe Shepard and the leader of Team Stefina would have had a go, Brad Rising would have raced Lombardi's 409, Frank Remlinger would have been racing Donny, Tom Miller would have raced the Nebraska (max wedge) Fury, and DaveH would have raced another 429 Torino. All of that being said, we must have the 2 of 3 shootout! :Comp: Sorry for the hijack! :grin:
Oh darn, thought there was some good news from that weekend. Probably should have launched that one at 6000 rather than 5000. :shock: Another big block matchup for a puny little Olds small block? No wonder Casey's selling his. Oh well.......... 102.61........and I got so excited..........another of life's smackdowns...... :ball:
John--also realize that lots of people "added" those bumpers to their W31s--the Dave Bunch car that just came back here was set up that way--the cutouts have a cool look so lots of people swap them out for regulars.
I have seen SX's with them too. Both my cars had the cutout bumpers and the trumpet exhaust. The other 2 W-31's in the Vancouver area had them too. And the one in Prince George ended up being parted out, and we got the good stuff from it. I owned my cars in the early 70's and had them at the same time. The guy with the orange one(Rally red) showed up on my door asking if I wanted to buy that one too. I couldn't afford 3 at a time. All of my literature is packed up right now, but now I'm curious as to whether the factory ads show them, or the magazine test articles of the time. John C
Listen to Dave H. They did not have cut out bumpers from the factory. Dave is the original owner of his '68 Ram Rod and worked for Olds in Lansing. He does know what he is talking about! P.S. Dave, I am still faster than you! p
You're a hard act to follow, Rusty. You are currently faster than me, but we have run a 104.50 in that car (13.30). Sure like to get back to that. :Brow: BTW, magazine article cars were usually supplied by the manufacturers and built/modified/tricked up in the engineering garages. I wouldn't go by that for anything. My reference stuff is also locked up, so can't consult that. SX's may have had notched bumpers and trumpets. No biggee, don't profess to be an expert on that. Real W31's definitely didn't. My 72 455 Supeme definitely didn't, but it wasn't called an SX. Same package, though.
Why is that? A little controversy? :laugh: You're a mopar guy. I have a question for you. I'm going to go and look at a 69 440 Road Runner that's for sale. The price seems reasonable, but I don't know much about decoding them. So I don't know if it's a real 440 car or not. How do I tell if it's the real article or not? Back to the W-31's. I'm not convinced that at least some of these cars didn't come from the factory equipped this way. I'll add to this later. I just came home to do some billing and price quotes. John C
The only way a 1969 RoadRunner came with a 440 was if it was a "1969 1/2" 440-6 car with the lift off fiberglass hood. Regular Runners in 69 only had a 383 or the Hemi 426. IF it is a 440-6 car, then the VIN should start with RM23M9A. The 383 variant is a RM23H9. The Hemi is RM23J9. If it is a convertible, then substitute the "3" with a "7" in all three VIN types.
Give it up. I worked as an assembly engineer on the Lansing assembly line from 1968-1973. My specialty was the Wcar programs in addition to my normal duties (chassis, fuel systems, exhaust systems, etc.) There were no W31's with notched bumpers. Period. Sorry.
Now that would have been handy information to have had at the beginning of this conversation. I had no idea who you were, or what your qualifications were. I've heard people say in the past that GM never did this or did that, but information comes out later to say that, Gee, maybe we did build a few of these after all. The 69 Trans Am convertible comes to mind. Thanks for setting me straight.
Thanks Frank :moonu: forget us Road Runner guys with RM21M9A :spank:. A "21" Road Runner has a post between the door and quarter window. :Smarty: BTW - there are absolutely no RM27M9A Road Runner convertibles with the A12 440+6 package.
Sorry Lon! My eyes didn't wander up the page of Galen's White Book far enough! Regardless, there were no 440 single 4bbl. 1969 RoadRunners built. Regardless of door post placement. :beer
No problem. There's lots of urban legends out there, usually fueled by clone cars, prototypes, etc. Not all are deceptively intentioned, but nobody wants to find out they've been taken AFTER they paid mega bucks for one that "may have gotten out". Maybe we need a "snopes" for musclecars. We (at Oldsmobile) never liked to be reminded that were were part of GM back then. Our biggest competition was Pontiac and Buick, could care less what Ford or Mopar was doing, did our best to ignore Chevrolet Division, or in other words, GM Corporate staff. BOP fought over a 2 million car annual market and usually split it up pretty evenly between the three. It was only after the 70's when Olds began taking over about half of that 2 Million market that GM stepped in to "help" and balance the tables. Standardization of prodeuct, processes, yawn, yawn,. Chevrolet was just so big, they ran things whatever way they wanted and dovetailed nicely with the central staff concept that the company became.......and now is thriving so well in todays markets. (Yeah right). There are lots of cars that did get out of the engineering garages, promo guys, etc., but not off the productioon line itself. The legalities and lawsuits that could arise from that pretty much kept that in check. Those cars may have started life as a production car, but were modified later. Sometimes before they were sold to the "first" legitimate owner. I don't think Engineering test cars were titled when they ran "M" (Manufacturer) plates back then. They were supposed to be converted to legal production release status before being approved for resale. Most of the neat stuff either got crushed or sent out through the back door to race teams, etc. Many ways to do that. Pick up the book entitled "Racing to the Future" by Dale Smith. He was the guru of getting things out and building the Olds racing programs for many years at Olds. Very entertaining and enlightening book. Enough warmth.......... :bglasses:
I know that car... Very well. I grew up with the fella that owned that Green W31 that was sold new in Olds, Alberta. His name is Jeff Sinclair-Smith. From Millarville, Alberta. Great friend of mine. Man, we had alot of fun with that car. It went like stink!! Brings back memories for sure! :TU:
When people insist their car is original and came from the factory a certain way -- one which is documented to not be possible, I always like to consider another possibility: that the dealer modified the car before initial delivery to please the customer and land the order. If I were a sleezy new car salesman back in fall of '69, wearing the requisite lime-green blazer and big-plaid pants, and some guy walked into my showroom with a fistfull of cash, saying, "I wanna git me one of them there small-block W-31s, but boy, I sure do like that notched rear bumper and exhaust trumpets on that 4-4-2 over there -- can I have one like that, 'cause if I can't I'm gunna git me a RoadRunner from across the street," then you can bet that I would make it happen. I'd be pulling the bumper and tail pipes from a 4-4-2 and putting them on his W-31. He wouldn't even have to know that it wasn't a factory option. Sleeze-bag that I am, I would even tell the factory that the 4-4-2 bumper was "damaged in transit" so please send me another. But having said all that, I bet most notched bumpers on W-31s today were installed by their owner -- whether intentionally or mistakenly.
