Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by GS Kubisch, Dec 24, 2005.
That why I ordered one a few years back
At the PRI SHOW in Dec.13,2004 I put my money down on one where is it?.
At this Rate I will have my Stroker Crank Project Done and will be sitting
on 6-10 Stroker Cranks 3.250 Main Journal size is stock and everyone
wont's something like 3.000 or 2.750 what are you going to Put it in see
TA's might be out sooner but at 6000, that hits the wallet hard. Only for high hp street or all out race.
They would not sell that many if they were $6000 each
Like i always say this 20 years behind
$6000 is what i was told today from Mike at TA.
$6000 is high, but you have to consider what the investment is compared to 2 things, the size of the company selling the block and the number of blocks they can reasonably expect to sell.
Looking at Jegs for some aluminum blocks, I found these prices;
Ford Racing 351 - $3521
GM Performance BBC - $4686
World Products BBC - $4399
IMHO, comparing TA to these guys isn't close. Mike's charging about 25% over the big boys, I don't really think it's that far out of line given how long it'll probably take him to recoup his investment.
Again he has the buick world by the balls so he can charge whatever he wants, makes ya wonder if Bulldog was gonna sell em for 3600 each why are ta's SO MUCH MORE???? ANYONE??? BUEHLER??? :af:
That's Bulldog's iron block price vs. TA's aluminum block price. I believe Bulldog's aluminum block was supposed to be priced between 5 and 6k.
Shawn, I'd think Mike would be the person to ask. It's just possible that TA put a lot more R&D $$ into their project than Bulldog and Jim B did. If you really want answers, go to the source. jmho.
You are right on Shawn. That is you People wanting to get away from Building
and Running Buick Power Plants. It is costing to much Money.BBC Dart
Blocks and world Block Iron is like $1900- $2800. most Aluminum Blocks
are $4000-$5000. I can see more people in the Buick Camp losing
interested in the Buick Power Plant if the Aftermarket Blocks cost $6000.
It is a Rip off for the Customers and Write off for the Business owners
Why is TA's more?
Maybe because it's a vastly superior design (ya, there are blueprints and a cad design.. imagine that!!) That stuff cost money.. money not spent on other block projects. So the end result is they have a lower cost product. Design costs money, and it's a key factor in seperating good products from bad.
Maybe because the entire project integrates other things like matching cylinder heads, oil pans, camshaft belt drives ect.. something that's not even an option on the competitors product. More development costs.
Maybe it's because TA invested all the money for the project.. Capital requires a return on investment, or you don't stay in business. It will take TA Years to recover the investment in this. The true "cost" of investment capital.
I might suggest that if you have a problem with the cost of this piece, that you send TA 50K to share in the burden.. I'm sure you will get a hell of a deal on a block, but will have to wait years and years to get all your money back, as TA recovers their (and your) investment money.
Please spare us the vendor bashing. Serious racers have waited years for this, and it's right around the corner now.
4, 5, 6 K???
What does that matter in a 20-30K mega HP engine? It's cheap insurance, and because it's aluminum, odds are pretty high that you will only have to buy one..
Throw a rod out of an iron block, an the TA block will start looking inexpensive.
And if your trying to build a "budget" 1000 HP NA engine.. well, good luck with that.. :error:
What i am saying is make the Products sell at Fair Price you will sell more and
your investment will pay for it self Faster. We Build Buick Engines we are not
getting alot of return on them.
i agree with jim, if you want to make big power and sport the aluminum with all the goodies its gonna cost . I for one thank TA for making the block...:beers2:
Jeff, It doesn't matter if the bull dog block was $50 or $3600 if it's not on the shelf ready for shipment who the hell caresou: I'm sick of people posting it won't be long now. Dick can't fill the outstanding orders let alone future orders so why even talk about bull dog on here any moreou: . I hate to say it but I'm not sure TA will ever get there investment back from this block. It does cost more to do aluminum over cast iron but I like the weight savings and being able to repair it if it blows up is big also. Yes we are paying abit more but the product will be second to none and most of all the product will get done in a reaonable amount of time and you will be able to buy it off the shelf. TA can have my $12,000 anytime there ready. Thanks to TA I am finally excited about whats around the corner for high performance BBB's. And Jeff don't try and pull the BBC thing I know you better then that:laugh: Chris
Oh I'm glad hes making it but make it affordable is my point, I just sold my 525 motor for a 5k loss so I know what a GOOD motor costs. I'll pay for the right parts but dont over price it cuz yer the only supplier in town. I would think a 750 HP 525 BBB is a serious racers motor.
P.S. no vendor bashing here JW.
We have talked about a Aftermarket Block for Years back in the 1990s and
in years of the 2000s at Bowl Green at Buick Nat's at the Race Seminars
Like i said before this is 20 years behind. $6000 for Block Machined out
of Billet Ok Cast Aluminum $6000 no Cast Aluminum $4000- $5000 ok.
I talked to many people years ago about Building a aftermarket Block
they said it was not needed. No demand for it. Buickmotorsport stopped
Building the Stage 1,2's V6 in the 90's The last 455 was built when in 1976
They got right on the V6 Aluminum Blocks when in the 2000's.
We were thrown under Bus again when that happen. Some one had to
step to the Plate first build a aftermarket BBB then some else wanted
to design one. They told me there was no need or demand for a Block.
You is there a Demand now. The Stock Block was weak 20 years ago.
It will be nice at sometime there will be aftermarket BBB will be out
there to Purchase. The V6 Buick world movied fast and Still is.
The BB Buick world movies Slow and always has. :rant:
I think Mike will get his money back and then some, but it may not be in block sales (for a while, anyway). Selling the blocks will increase sales of parts to go with it, sales he may not have had otherwise.
$6000 sounds fare to me. How much will it cost to replace your short block and valvetrain when you send a rod thru it or break a cam in half. Not to mention down time...how many races have Buick guys missed from "another" bad experience. $6000 starts getting cheep if you've been doing this Buick race stuff for a while.....Unless you own your machine shop....
Well I'd think with 17k in my 750hp 725 tq 525 stroker, that I'd be one of those serious racers you speak of JW, I sold the motor cuz there was no end in sight for the car in the body shop. MY plan for the future was a TA block with jeff's crank and a procharger. for 1000 pump gas HP.